• Karl08
  • DriverPacks newbie
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  • Registered: 2008-05-24
  • Posts: 6

Topic: Universal Image

You guys know so much and work so hard that I feel a little out of my depth here.

I've been reading most of the 2008 posts in this forum and now my head hurts roll

I started my own IT support business and I've come to the conclusion that I'm not going to wrestle with viruses on customer's machines; instead I'm going to wipe the wretched disk and re-install XP for them.

I felt like Aladdin when I stumbled across this forum, but now I'm sat on the side, surrounded by all this treasure, confused, and not sure which is the right solution to pursue.

Please could you help me to know which is the best solution for my needs:

I will be re-installing XP on a wide range of hardware.
The computers will typically be standalone.
Would like to have the new XP up and running within 30 minutes - with all updates and basic settings.
I know how to use Nlite, Acronis True Image 10, and to a limited degree VMWare player (with manually created VM's)

I'm sure I've forgotten to say something, but that's the beauty of forums.

In anticipation,
Karl

P.S.  I'm more than happy to play my part in any testing you need me to do.
Thanks

  • OverFlow
  • DriverPacks Administrator & BASE Developer
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  • Registered: 2006-12-02
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Re: Universal Image

Well Welcome to the neighborhood...

i like this lineup - 1... 2... 3...

Help and Support - everything you need to know start to finish
http://unattended.msfn.org/unattended.xp/  MSFN rocks

I do these in this order - and so do most of our users.

1) RyanVM integrator - updates windows including service packs  - result zero updates.
2) nLite - Automates installation - (customize install experience) - result reduced time to get windows setup for use.
3) Driverpacks - adds all drivers and textmode mass storage support. - result no unknown devices
DONE) Create and test ISO Image -NLite should still be open from step two and is now used to create our iso image that we will test in a Virtual Machine. In your VM mount ISO as a CD ROM and test. if VM works as desired then burn...

if you have programs that you need installed after windows setup then add WPI
Windows Post Installer - automates installation of other programs like acrobat reader or google tool bar ect...

start with that and the keyword UWXPCD and you will go far!

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  • Karl08
  • DriverPacks newbie
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  • Registered: 2008-05-24
  • Posts: 6

Re: Universal Image

Thank you, I appreciate your help.

Did as you suggested, installed fine on my test laptop (old Thinkpad 390).
However, I was hoping to speed this process up; perhaps using a universal image?

I would like to take an image of a generic system and then use that image to rebuild a customer's machine.  It seems possible from what I read in this forum, but I'm not certain on which route to follow; Do I use normal MS sysprep, OfflineSysPrep, Acronis Universal Restore, etc. ???

Kind Regards,
Karl

  • OverFlow
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Re: Universal Image

SysPrep will save you about  10-20 minutes on an install
(but since it is unnattended who cares, go to lunch, solve another issue, take a nap ;P )

it will take you weeks to get up to speed on sysprep
then your image will only work on a single HAL - so you will have to have multiple images or use some difficult tools
sysprep requires you manually add mass storage drivers.
Sysprep is very difficult to setup maintain and use.
If you are not already very familiar with it - don't even consider it.

if you really can't stand the idea of waiting an extra 20 minutes for your mahcine to get done use ghost.
you will still have to have an image for each hal type but it will take you minutes to get up and running instead of weeks.

to me this is a no brainer...
if i have to spend a couple of weeks to get done in 15 min per install
or spend a couple of hours so i can get done in 25 min
then the latter is my choice.
My time is valuable and i can't or wont spend 40 hours of non billable hours to save no time at all (over the long haul).
(since i dont have to be watching the install it takes none of my time)

now if you used the master to create a ghost image then
this method will take weeks less time than SysPrep to setup and still yeild a 15 minute install.

you are looking at a soulution that will take more of your time to maintain than it will ever save you.
and it will never do all of the things you want it to. (well not without spending days of your time messing with it)

then updates like servicepacks hot fixes and apps would require starting over on your sysprep images.
The UWXPCD is easier to setup and maintain more reliable and will install on any machine regardless of type.
Updateing a UWXPCD takes minutes instead of hours
(And sysprep would only take hours if you were skilled at it)

It is of course your choice - but dont think that sysprep will save you time - because it won't, period...
I can show you, in every case, how sysprep takes more time than it saves.
The only situation i have found that sysprep rocks at is if i want to move a users HDD to a new platform
IE A user has data and settings that would be to difficult to duplicate and they need a new MB.
in this case it will still take you more time, but that time is now 'billable' time... 
you will pull your hair out again and again getting it to ever work and cost you more time than it will ever save.

ps think about this if you were to take the UWXPCD route you're already done!
Instead of just getting started. wink

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  • Karl08
  • DriverPacks newbie
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  • Registered: 2008-05-24
  • Posts: 6

Re: Universal Image

Thank you for your reply.

You're absolutely right smile
I've spent most of the day on this issue and I'm only a fraction closer to trimming down the time to re-install XP.  Now I can see that it isn't worth the hassle.

I do, however, have a few remaining questions.

What is UWXPCD?
Do you recommend that I install ALL the driver packs into the XP cd?
Do you recommend that I choose Method 1 and QSC to install DP's.
Should I choose the option to KTD ?

I'm now looking at the option to slipstream SP3 into the CD instead of RVM's file, but I'm in the process of doing this (on a Vista machine) and the new install won't accept my genuine Product Key - our survey says, "uh uhhhhh"
After a little check on the internet it seems I'm not the only one, but I haven't found the solution yet.

Karl

  • Karl08
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  • Registered: 2008-05-24
  • Posts: 6

Re: Universal Image

Just remembered something else ...

I'm using nLite to slipstream SP3 and remove some components.
When removing components there is a section to remove the Drivers that come on the XP cd - should I remove them before I install the Driver Packs?  My reasoning is to cut down on the size of the ISO, and since I am installing Driver Packs do I need the microsoft supplied drivers? 100+mb

Karl

  • Registered: 2007-03-30
  • Posts: 10

Re: Universal Image

My personal solution that I've started to go ahead w/ will be two cds: one OEM XP Home and one OEM XP Pro. They will both have multi-manufacturer OEM activation built in, have SP3 slipstreamed (then eventually RyanVM update packs when necessary) and have the Mass Storage and LAN drivers off the Driver Pack integrated on. On first boot, machines will map a drive to a network share, run DP_inst.exe and install whatever drivers it's missing, then reboot. On the 2nd reboot, they will install whatever applications I've decided on (probably AVG 8 Free, Spybot, OpenOffice). I think this approach will be easier to manage than my original plan of having a universal sysprep image.

  • Karl08
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  • Registered: 2008-05-24
  • Posts: 6

Re: Universal Image

Sounds good.

How do you have 'multi-manufacturer OEM activation' built in?  I'm sure I could do with this.
In fact, I'm using a DELL oem XP pro cd and I'm not sure if this is causing the problem of the product key described in my earlier post.
Also, can I run DP_Inst.exe from a USB hdd I plug in to the computer to collect the drivers?  If so, where do I put the drivers - E:\driverpacks\d.....

I really appreciate the support everyone is offering.

Karl

  • OverFlow
  • DriverPacks Administrator & BASE Developer
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  • Registered: 2006-12-02
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Re: Universal Image

Many times our users are in a situation
where SysPrep has been in use and change is difficult,
or was put in use by thier superiors and are stuck,
or is something they have a lot of experience with personaly and is in their comfort zone.
i have every intention of supporting the SysPrep platform for these hard working and dedicated guys...
but given a choice - don't take the path to the dark side young Luke Skywalker.
on the other hand it has legit uses and you should at least be aware of it as an option.

--------
UWXPCD is Unattended Windows XP Compact Disk ...
UWXPCD is a commonly used abbreviation and is Google food. wink
---------

More details on a good methodology. In this case mine. There are certainly other valid ones!

Rule ONE and Rule TWO
NEVER work on your original files and folders. A Simple rule that is always overlooked - even if it is listed twice wink
IE copy your OEM CD to C:\51HomOEM\

Assumtion one
  You are useing the apps in the approved order 

STEP ONE - Slipstream Service pack to Windows 5.1 (XP)
   this may mean SP2 or more likely SP3.
   (please refer to rule one here)
      if you are useing RVM it will automaticaly copy the files to a new folder for you
      if you are useing nLite then you must first copy your 51HomOEM\ to C:\51HomSP3\ manually
    Your new C:\51HomSP3\ will not be modified anymore it is a backup... (see rule two)
Step TWO - post service pack updates
   (please refer to rule one here) and note that RVM will make a source to detination copy for you.
   If you do not use RVM to do the copy then you can manually copy C:\51HomSP3\ to C:\51HomRVM\
      Use RVM to install post SP2 updates and any addons you require (DotNet for example)
   Your new C:\51HomRVM\ will not be modified anymore it is a backup... (see rule two)
Step THREE
   Nlite with impunity on Your new C:\51HomNlt\ folder you just copied from C:\51HomRVM\
   (reference rule one) now if i make a bad choice with nLite I can just copy my RVM folder backup & try again.
Step four DriverPacks
(ideal)
   I am of course now working from the folder  C:\51HomDP\ created by copying C:\51HomNlt\
   Run DriverPacks as the last step in your process.
(my actual method)
   I run DriverPacks on the C:\51HomNlt\ folder while nLite is paused at the create ISO screen wink
--------------

Reducing the size of the ISO to less than 700 Mb has become quite difficult and M2 is the best way to get there.
This has become a nonissue as the price of DVD burners is less than $20
(think about this a tech who charges / costs $60 an hour could spend more time than money in 20 minutes.)
(if it doesnt have one it gets one - or if they really can't afford $10 for a reader i hang my usb2 external dvdRW.
and i get paid for them makeing a clearly stupid decision.

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  • OverFlow
  • DriverPacks Administrator & BASE Developer
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  • From: Cincinnati
  • Registered: 2006-12-02
  • Posts: 6,730

Re: Universal Image

um i wrote the DP_Install_Tool.cmd that gets copied to your OEM folder to search all available drive letters for your \OEM folder (the root folder of each drive letter only) {it also searches for the M1 folder $OEM$\$1\D\}

so you could call DP_Install_Tool.cmd after you are connected to the network drive.

PS see this thread here http://forum.driverpacks.net/viewtopic.php?id=2751


if you are a more hands on type see this...
http://forum.driverpacks.net/viewtopic.php?id=2264
I have copied the relevant info of the first post below.
(please note this post is in the FAQ section and it is stickied wink )

the first half of the post desribes how to extract or cab the drivers for use in the instructions below.
---------

OR for one click updateing...

If you do not wish to manually install the drivers you may, if you wish, use the following method
This is based on info from one of our members - Warm Snow (WsnoW)

Download http://3rdpartydriverpacks.thesneaky.co … /DPInst.7z

Extract DPINST.exe and DPInst.xml to the same folder as \D

--- both methods assume that D\ is a subfolder of the folder that contains the DPInst.* files ---

To use it simply double click on the DPInst.exe file and click the next button!

optional:
create a .CMD file with the following line --->  DPInst.exe /c /s
/c enables logging to the command window
/s enables silent mode (no GUI) 

For a "drivers only disk" simply copy to a CD, DVD, Thumbdrive or any removable media.
IE  Burn DPINST.exe and DPInst.xml and the D\ subfolder to disk

(if you wish to rename the D\ folder you will have to edit the XML file)
-------------

more...

--- advanced users only----
add
DPInst.exe /c /s
to your autorun.inf file wink the 'no click' updateing option - and only brought to you by Jeff  wink

please note;  wrote this tutorial before dpinst was included in base so the dwnload is not required if you have base version 8.x (or newer lol)

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  • OverFlow
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Re: Universal Image

I belive that sp3 now allows an install without a PID...

however you will be prompted for your PID by genuine advantage and windows activation.
(when you visit Microsoft Updates for example)
so you should be able to input your clients PID after the install and have no licence issues.
this is intended by MS to eliminate the issue of the install CDs haveing different PID algorithims.

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  • Jaak
  • Old Timer Rookie
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  • From: Eeklo, in the East Flanders
  • Registered: 2006-07-23
  • Posts: 3,594

Re: Universal Image

Karl08 wrote:

I started my own IT support business and I've come to the conclusion that I'm not going to wrestle with viruses on customer's machines; instead I'm going to wipe the wretched disk and re-install XP for them.

Hi
I hope you make your customers sign a contract in which they order you to not attempt to save data and to thoroughly wipe and format and then re-install with no hope for data recovery..
A better alternative is to maybe offer a new hard drive, scan the virus infected drive and transfer usable data to the newly installed OS if the old OS was in a hopeless shambles..

A sign in the shop saying "We  are not responsible for loss of data" is not going to cut it. (and it would probably lose you custom too..)
I do know that time is money, but your customer may have data his business is riding on and may have no backup.
It wouldn't be the first small business that folds because their recent data got lost.
IF you did that to them, they would take the case to court, don't you think?

other than that, welcome to DriverPacks.
smile

The answer was 42?
Kind regards, Jaak.
  • Jaak
  • Old Timer Rookie
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  • Registered: 2006-07-23
  • Posts: 3,594

Re: Universal Image

and that question about removing 100Mb of native windows drivers and then add DriverPacks..
erm, well, that is tossing the baby out along with the tub.
DriverPacks do not replace windows native drivers so you may find yourself looking for drivers what were not needed had you not removed them..

The answer was 42?
Kind regards, Jaak.
  • Karl08
  • DriverPacks newbie
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  • Registered: 2008-05-24
  • Posts: 6

Re: Universal Image

OverFlow, thanks once again for your detailed help - I learn much better when people break things down in to steps.  I used to be a school teacher before returning to IT, and I know that people learn best when they are shown how to break a problem down in to manageable steps.
I'm going to follow your advice and create a DVD driver pack disk - then I only need to install the Mass Storage txt mode drivers in to the UWXPCD and later run the DPInst.exe; unless installing ALL driver packs to a UWXPDVD is a better choice.

Jaak, thanks also for reminding me about data loss; you never can be too careful  cool
'Are you sure you want to format C as NTFS ?'    {Click Yes}  I mean noooooooooooo. yikes
With regards to removing the native windows drivers; I really thought I'd struck gold with that suggestion, but later I realised that surely you guys would have spotted that long before me and added it to the DP instructions.

Onwards and upwards friends.  I need to get some sleep.

  • OverFlow
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Re: Universal Image

Jaak only reinforced Rules ONE and TWO. NEVER work on your original files -
let me put that a different way     NEVER  EVER  work on any original files for ANY reason  wink
Data is to IT   like   Life is to a Surgeon  big_smile       

1 always backup the users drive.
and if the machine will run
2 always virus scan.


I recommend you use DriverPacks with all the main packs plus a few like the monitor and modem packs from third party.
if you need to update drivers in a system you can simply drop the disk in and double click on DP_Install_Tool.cmd

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