Topic: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/br229516

In case you are interested... wink

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

Grabbing it since this morning.  Download is slow.  VM here we come!

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

Woot!

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Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

Couldn't even get it to install on VirtualBox, but worked in VMWare.
First 15 minutes impression was somewhat mixed, probably due to the host being too slow for smooth Metro animations.
But, what is thatm the Start button is a mere fake on Desktop now!
Whaaaaa...!

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

I get really poor graphics performance, as it used some type of default display driver.

The thing looks like a smart phone on my monitor. It's like a very large windows phone 7 with a windows desktop plug-in. I sure wouldn't like it as my home desktop system. If I had a tablet screen, I'm sure this OS would be kinda cool. But I don't see how this is going to work with current OEM desktop computers. All windows 7 software we've tried seem to install okay. Maybe this won't get installed into mainstream desktop computers, but who knows.

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

the most interesting features for us will involve driver support.  What can be said about the default installed drivers; does anyone have native USB3 support, for instance?
I hear that you can enable the start button; yet you lose Explorer 'Ribbon'.

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

Looks to me like M$ has another Windows ME on their hands.  I don't like it.
I DO like the explorer ribbon! smile
If I can figure out how to permanently disable the giant tiles and go back to a standard interface.
I'm also worried about their driver support since they're moving to the WDDM 1.2 which isn't directly compatible with the Vista/Win7 set.

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

Well, from what I've read, the trick to disable Metro (which serves no real purpose on a non-touch display - I figure, there will be an option to enable/disable it in setup in the final version or some auto-detect of touch/tablet HW as Win7 already does) yet retain ribbon functionality in Explorer (which I kind of welcome, I really liked the switch from Menu to Ribbon in Office and some uniformity among apps is a good thing!), you got to do the following:

Rename (or delete I guess) shsxs.dll in %systemroot%\System32.
Reboot --> Metro gone, ribbons stay.

I assume you'll also get the Start Menu back that way...



If you want to disable ribbons and Metro, do the following:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer]
"RPEnabled"=dword:00000000

HTH!



EDIT:
More info here and here!

Last edited by Helmi (2011-09-16 20:09:04)

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

Well now this is interesting!  I was poking around in the new Intel drivers and found this:

[IntelGfx.NTamd64.6.2]
; no install on Win8

So the Win8 designator is NT 6.2.  Vista is 6.0, Win7 is 6.1 and now Win8 is 6.2.

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

http://forum.driverpacks.net/viewtopic. … 042#p45042
This was also used on a previous nV graphics driver; perhaps this could lead to an updated Win8 driver.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=210184

One would find such an updated driver on Microsoft Update as referenced here:  http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=351290
efforting...  Nope, Windows Update Catalog has not been helpful.  One would likely need to install win8 to access updated Windows 8 drivers.

Welcome to the new nightmare! yikes

Last edited by TechDud (2011-10-09 04:04:29)

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

i have not been able to install this in a vmware or a VirtualBox on my x86 machine

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Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

Here's hoping that this helps:  http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011 … nment.aspx big_smile

There is now a forum available from MS:  http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums … al/threads

When Win8 goes RTM, SecureBoot may prevent execution/installation of Linux, running AntiVirus Rescue CD's, bootloaders for Virtual Machines, updating Option ROM's manually, etc.  http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011 … -uefi.aspx sad

Excerpts from the aforementioned site's comments section:

Hairs_ wrote:

It's interesting that Microsoft have chosen to respond to the myriad of comments complaining that the Windows 8 boot loader (like the Win 7 boot leader before it) assumes that it has the right to overwrite any other boot loader that the user might have installed, without so much as a warning, or an accommodation to existing setups - with a post about UEFI Secure Boot.

Let's be clear about something:

UEFI Secure Boot is totally unrelated to the complaints about the Win 8 Boot Loader. @Steven_Sinofsky knows this, but has chosen to ignore the issue. I take exception to that.

For example, if you have an existing dual-boot Win 7/Win XP machine, and install the Win 8 Preview, it will simply overwrite the existing boot loader. It will recognise the Win 7 installation, but will remove the Win XP install from the menu. That's totally unacceptable install behaviour. Note that this happens on Non-UEFI systems, so Microsoft can't use "UEFI Secure Boot" as an excuse for why the installer does this.

If Microsoft simply accommodated users with dual-boot systems inside the Windows Boot loader, then users wouldn't have to install a GRUB loader between the BIOS and the Win Boot loader, would they? But that's never going to happen.

I find this post disingenuous and unhelpful, frankly. It's irrelevant what a locked down OEM laptop single booting Win 8 is doing when complaints are being made about dual boot enterprise or "home professional" installation procedures.

Keys will leak wrote:

Microsoft should make sure that Windows-Certified systems have an ability to update certificate lists. All keys leak, and if Secure Boot boots system that uses a compromised certificate, it's worse than having no Secure Boot at all.

I wonder what potential trouble that could cause when Win8-SP1 is eventually released. hmm

Last edited by TechDud (2011-10-09 09:08:18)

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

OverFlow wrote:

i have not been able to install this in a vmware or a VirtualBox on my x86 machine

There's a new version of VB out (released 2011-10-03) that supposedly now supports Win8 installs!

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

Win8 works fine on my VB install.  It must be a problem with your settings.  Helmi's right.  The newer version does help though.

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

MS Windows 8 UEFI 'Secure Boot' locking out linux appears more deliberate, in light of the following article titled "Microsoft milks Casio for using Linux".

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/20 … losed_sum/

Brid-Aine Parnell wrote:

Microsoft has claimed since 2007 that more than 235 of its patents are violated by the project.

From Qi-Hardware: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:ME_ … ology2.gif

Last edited by TechDud (2011-10-10 22:13:11)

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

As long as Secure Boot is an optinal feature that can be enabled and disabled in the BIOS... err, UEFI, I don't see any problem with it.
Of course, you'd then have to decide whether to use SB or Linux, but at least you have the choice.
What's up with the TMP chips found on some MBs already?
I guess they aren't supported by Linux, either, yet, it doesn't cause any problems if you have one.

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

Oh yeah, Windows 7 would not boot on such a UEFI-SecureBoot equipped system! lol
http://mcpmag.com/articles/2011/09/24/w … abled.aspx

Microsoft does not require OEM's to supply an option to disable Secure Boot.  http://contagiodump.blogspot.com/2011/0 … award.html
Perhaps the former article may have been a driving force for developers of Win8.
See the "Virus Attacks" section of this Wikipedia article for older infections.  https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/BIOS

I note that Itanium & ARM based systems may not be compatible with Legacy-BIOS anyway.
One upside may be the future support of a rumoured x128 CPU(APU).  http://windows8themes.org/amd-working-o … r-fpu.html

http://fossforce.com/2011/10/secure-boo … ts-agenda/
I’ll bet you dollars to doughnuts that within weeks, if not days or hours, of Windows 8?s release the secure boot unlock codes will be broken and available on the Internet. The jailbreakers, the counterfeiters, the hackers and crackers will be able to install anything they want on any machine, whether secure boot can be disabled or not. As soon as that happens, malicious bootkits will be found in the wild that can get around secure boot as easily as a little kid can get around a childproof safety cap.

Hacking UEFI to disable Secure Boot will be illegal in Canada after the new "DMCA" law (The Copyright Modernization Act) is passed, as it most-likely will be.  As will the breaking of any "Digital Lock" other than the "Carrier Lock" on a cell phone. 

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/polit … ice=mobile
This new legal heft behind digital locks would trump consumer rights. It means, for instance, that allowances for Canadians to back up or duplicate copyrighted works for personal use disappear if a digital lock is present.

Defeating copy protection of a DVD with the intent of making a copy for your kids to use could carry a $5000 penalty under the new law. sad

Last edited by TechDud (2011-10-11 11:51:52)

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

OK. I've notice strange and unexplained activity on my install of the W8 Dev Preview x64 edition. And I trust y'all to help me get to the bottom of it.

I have noticed, on multiple occasions in the past three weeks of testing, unexplained CPU activity (5-7%) when the system SHOULD be idle, as well as excessive network activity on the order of 1.9Mb/sec uploads and 1.76Mb/sec downloads. Not abnormal, BUT I'M NOT DOWNLOADING ANYTHING.

LSASS.EXE is now consuming over 1,270,000KB of memory! That's 1.27GB, and it's been rising the whole time I've been monitoring it this evening.

RAM use for lsass.exe now stands at 1,295,000KB. All I can say is WOW! What the heck is doing this??

Other processes that are seeing activity are System and Svshost.

I really LIKE Win8 DevPre, as it seems more stable than W7SP1x64 (was getting F4 BSODs during idle times, like overnight). I ran W8DevPre for over fifteen days with no BSODs, then had to switch back to W7SP1x64 (because for the life of me I could not network the W8 box to a W7 system on the same LAN. Would never accept my user ID and password for the other system, and I tried it both ways, multiple times...) and I got the BSOD F4 withing 24 hours. Go figure.

LSASS.EXE now at 1,354,000KB and still rising, LAN activity staying the same.

OK, I'll bite. WTF, man??

Can anyone shed any insight? Is this Windows Update in disguise? Is this telemetry at work?

I would heartily appreciate your feedback, as I certainly respect your technical experience and skillsets.

Thanks for any time you can provide.

Best wishes from Atlanta, GA. USA.

MARK STRELECKI

P.S. - lsass.exe RAM at 1,390,000KB and STILL going up.
P.P.S. - Last time I looked, it was at 1,779,000KB and rising...

Last edited by markstrelecki (2011-10-14 13:38:59)

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

LSASS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Secu … em_Service
I have a memory leak in my Win7 x64 system.  I've had it for over a year and I still don't know what causes it.
Does that memory use extend past a restart?  How long is your up-time? It's not 15-days is it?
Report it as a bug.

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

have the new VB and have now installed it on my x64 gaming system too... neither machine will run win8. but at least the x64 version / machine gets o the desktop before crashing.

i have always used VMW so the VB settings are stock / recomended (default win8 settings).

Not really happy with it so far tongue (yes the hashes match on my downloads)


Secure Boot... what a bunch of crap...

Anybody remember the DMRM the they put in vista when it first came out... and then they removed it with SP1?

one step forward two steps back... 
just keep banging your head against the wall MS perhaps you will sever your frontal lobe altogether.

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Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

In Canada; hacking the firmware on a personally-owned mainboard to add the "SecureBoot" option could be considered illegal under the new law (These are not the 'Droids you are looking for).

The mere fact that Samsung was quick to showcase a tablet with this option implies that it might not be that difficult to add.  The caveat would be that one would possibly need to flash it externally.  "DualBIOS" and the like may become popular again.  Mod-chips for PC's, what? 

OverFlow wrote:

just keep banging your head against the wall MS perhaps you will sever your frontal lobe altogether.

I would much rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy! roll

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

Another problem may be encountered with the default bootloader in UEFI. http://www.h-online.com/open/features/K … 81549.html

According to this site http://www.h-online.com/open/features/S … 83726.html  SecureBoot will only be available on x64 versions of Win8, as only 64 bit operating systems since Vista support installation on UEFI systems.
Adding support to UEFI may be a "Compatibility Service Module" away (required to install 32bit OS')  Could price performance & profit motivations help explain Samsung's quick reply enabling 32bit Win8 to load on their tablet?  Simply necessity.

Microsoft refers to systems that can boot either in UEFI or in BIOS mode as "Class 2" systems; systems without CSM are referred to as "Class 3"

This has me wondering what MS considers to be a "Class 1" system.

Last edited by TechDud (2011-10-16 11:11:58)

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

Class 1: Just BIOS and no UEFI?
Just taking a guess here...


Anyway, as for "hacking" the firmware: As long as you don't do it commercially, I doubt anyone would notice. And no one noticing means no one suing, right? So I wouldn't really bother about it, at least for you private PC (unless you feel really uncomfortable with "breaking the law" - well, rest assured, that numb feeling will pass wink)

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

It is my hope that common sense will become more common & thereby rule the day.

Here's some pseudo-random notes:

By the by, did i say that Win7 is not UEFI boot-able?  My mistake.  http://www.overclock.net/intel-motherbo … st15162748 big_smile

"Asus launches USB 3.0 speed booster, UASP support for ASMedia" --> http://vr-zone.com/articles/asus-launch … 13732.html
There's an app for that, somewhere.
http://event.asus.com/mb/2010/The_Best_ … USB3.0.htm
USB Attached SCSI Protocol is expected to be added in Win8.

Release Notes for the DeveloperPreview:  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsserver/hh440438

Windows Developer Preview: General OS questions  http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums … iewgeneral

On upgrading to Win8 from Win7 (when possible), export your DRM-protected content first, or it may no longer be accessible.

WDDM Display Model v1.2 appears near finalized:  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library … e/br259098
  DirectX11.1 on NT6.2 here we come!

Windows Developer Hardware: http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/windowshardware

Qualcomm, nV, & TI have further detailed their upcoming Win8 ARM SoC's recently.  Qualcomm's SnapdragonS4 spec has support for Quad-A9's on 28nm.  "The DirectX 9.3 API included in Windows 8" and additional support for FM radio! lol http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news … pdragon-S4
nV's has outed their Tegra3 5-core battery-warmer-when-it-needs-to-be SoC's based on 4 x A9's with a management core on the same die. http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news … bile-chip-
TI's OMAP5 seems the most ambitious with Dual-A15's & Dual Cortex-M4's on 28nm. http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news … -TI-s-OMAP

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4212912/Multiple-cores-power-fifth-generation-of-TI-s-OMAP wrote:

The OMAP 5 processor can support up to four cameras in parallel, as well as record and play back S3D video in 1080p quality, and perform real-time conversion of 2D content to S3D at 1080p resolution. The processor can also deliver advanced short- and long-range gesturing applications, as well as full-body and multi-body interactive gestures, utilizing either 2D or S3D cameras.

The OMAP 5 processor, coupled with a TI DLP Pico projector and a camera, can also enable interactive projection where the user can actually “touch and drag” projected images on both a table top or wall.

Additionally, the OMAP 5 processor can interface with and leverage a variety of sensor technologies to enable touch-less sensing, such as proximity sensing, capacitive sensing and ultrasonic sensing.

http://www.eetimes.com/ContentEETimes/Images/News/2011-02-07_crh_TIOMAP5_table.jpg  Correct me if i'm wrong, yet the OMAP5430 appears to have the most balls, so far, eh? smile

From the Google-translated http://translate.google.com/translate?l … eview.aspx

Rodriguez Villanueva Jhuess wrote:

It is important to note that Microsoft has ensured that the system will be compatible with all hardware and software for Windows 7

http://blogs.msdn.com/resized-image.ashx/__size/500x0/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-47-83/1588.Win8_2D00_Performance.png

I noticed on the "Sponsors" page from the BUILD conference, AMI is "in like flynn" & AT&T, like a dirty-shirt.  http://www.buildwindows.com/Sponsors
It is unclear to me what the exact implication is for UEFI implementations from competitors to AMI.

IMHO, the "killer app" with Windows8 would be "Kinect Support" for the User Interface for Desktops.  http://blogs.msdn.com/b/chuckw/archive/ … -beta.aspx
This would solute well with the TI OMAP5 design, for mobile, what with what is reminiscent of Kinect sans-Sensors built-in.

Last edited by TechDud (2011-10-18 00:49:26)

Re: Win 8 Dev. Preview is here!

WDP expires March 8th, 2012.  This may help indicate when the first true Beta will be anticipated by.

Here's a Lsass-related, high-usage, error reporting set of posts:  http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums … 7f702bd0af

The previous picture exampling the differences in memory usage, and the pictures it was based upon, are now involved in controversy.  Users have thus-far been unable to replicate the Win8 results, deliberate doctoring of data & now Photoshopping is alleged. yikes
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums … 1dab916d55

Win8 may have better performance with the new Bulldozer modules than Win7. http://techreport.com/articles.x/21813/3

Last edited by TechDud (2011-10-18 03:21:05)