Topic: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

I think DriverPacks are great for my WinPE/BartPE (UBCD4Win) installation. I'm putting together a one-size-fits-all boot CD for a PC repair shop I'm interning at, and I've just about got it.

One thing's been having me bash my head against a wall, though. The driver packs for graphics are split up by some ridiculous criteria with no real-world purpose.

We've got nVidia and ATI (the two "dedicated GPU" manufacturers) grouped into "A" along with a bunch of unnecessary control panel installation trash on the ATI side (that, in fact, causes the driver pack to not slipstream properly - it "crashes out" silently after integrating A1 acting like it completed - that's the bug referenced in the title). Then we've got Intel drivers along with a bunch of unnecessary "business class" nVidia and ATI drivers. Then we've got VIA and SiS drivers, this time with a bunch of outdated manufacturers nobody cares about.

nVidia, ATI, Intel, VIA, and SiS are the five manufacturers that produce the graphics chips on about 95-98% of the computers in the shop - including laptops. So far I've had to waste hours of time and tons of bandwidth downloading - then repackaging and recompressing and bug-testing - those driver packs, trying to get all 3 installed with just the components that are actually relevant to me. How come the "Big 5" aren't packaged into "A" or maybe just A and B? Doesn't it seem a little excessive that I'd have to download all 3 to get the drivers I need? sad

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

WTF is your problem, man?

The driver packs for graphics are split up by some ridiculous criteria with no real-world purpose.

Just because you don't seem to grasp our concept of splitting up the drivers (which was elaborated and discussed comprehensively among the team and everyone agreed on it!) doesn't mean you can call it stupid.
As a matter of fact, 100,000s of users before you had no problem with it, proving that the real world does not oppose to our concept.

Speaking of which, yes, it's ours, among with our project.

So you are using it in your repair shop - fine.
Our hard work saves you time AND money the like but all you do is come here and complain.
Very nice first post there, buddy...

Ever considered to donate to the project or have you just come around to complain?

We've got nVidia and ATI (the two "dedicated GPU" manufacturers) grouped into "A"

Dead on, Sherlock!
And guess what, these are the most frequently update drivers, too, so it's only logical to have them in their own pack, because that saves bandwidth...

But, look:

So far I've had to waste hours of time and tons of bandwidth downloading - then repackaging and recompressing and bug-testing

Boohoo!
Either you are totally incompetent or just simply too dumb.
So you had to waste time on that, huh?
Someone's forcing you to use the DriverPacks?
Poor sod...

The packs are intended to and do work as such being used together.
There's no overlapping and they work just fine for everyone else...

along with a bunch of unnecessary control panel installation trash on the ATI side (that, in fact, causes the driver pack to not slipstream properly - it "crashes out" silently after integrating A1 acting like it completed - that's the bug referenced in the title

Apparently, you are too dense to notice the options in BASE.
Don't like the CCC, don't enable it, period.
Read the guide first, will ya!

Oh, and bugs are to be reported at the bugtracker, kthnx!

Then we've got Intel drivers along with a bunch of unnecessary "business class" nVidia and ATI drivers.

Why are business class drivers unnecessary?
Lots of our users work as sys admin in big companies and those are exactly using aforementioned cards, you genius!

nVidia, ATI, Intel, VIA, and SiS are the five manufacturers that produce the graphics chips on about 95-98% of the computers in the shop

So, should we cater for the single needs of you very shop now or what?
And the next shop having other five-tops producers gets their own packs, as well, hum?

Do you even realize how ridiculous such a request is?

Doesn't it seem a little excessive that I'd have to download all 3 to get the drivers I need?

And by how much would the file size of a combined pack shrink by your expert calculations?
Excessive?
Give me a break!
Plus, BASE is auto-DLing the packs for you already, what kind of lazy bugger are you?



PS: Yes, I am pissed, and I know exactly how Jeff must feel all the time...

I think someone needs a swift kick in the butt to get back a sense of reality! mad

Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

Looks like someone needs to get kicked in the knees to get off their high horse...

Helmi wrote:

Just because you don't seem to grasp our concept of splitting up the drivers (which was elaborated and discussed comprehensively among the team and everyone agreed on it!)

Sounds like another case of the "i am everyone".

Helmi wrote:

So you are using it in your repair shop - fine.
Our hard work saves you time AND money the like but all you do is come here and complain.
Very nice first post there, buddy...

Ever considered to donate to the project or have you just come around to complain?

Your hard work has thus far wasted my time and hasn't saved me any money... as I haven't made a cent off my intern job and I haven't yet even been able to get the "hard work" to even "work" yet. It's just been a headache for the past several hours trying to piece apart the tangled and broken mess trying to make it into a coherant mass that I can get DriverPack Base to accept, then PEBuilder to build, within 700mb, along side a couple hundred megs of other combined BootCD's in one ISO.

Helmi wrote:

Dead on, Sherlock!
And guess what, these are the most frequently update drivers, too, so it's only logical to have them in their own pack, because that saves bandwidth...

Why in god's name do they even need to be updated...? All I care about is that 95% of the computers on the workbench actually come up with a optimized video driver. If the video card just came out in the past 3 or 4 months, I kinda expect it to not work properly in a CD I burned 6 months ago anyway...

Helmi wrote:

Boohoo!
Either you are totally incompetent or just simply too dumb.
So you had to waste time on that, huh?

Clearly, considering as though I've made it this far.

Helmi wrote:

Someone's forcing you to use the DriverPacks?
Poor sod...

Yes, actually... seeing as though I can't create custom DriverPacks and enter them into a WinPE installation due to DriverPacks-Base's architecture that blocks custom DP's from being used... I'm kinda tied and chained to DriverPacks.

Helmi wrote:

The packs are intended to and do work as such being used together.
There's no overlapping and they work just fine for everyone else...

(emphasis mine)
*cough* duplicate files in every folder *cough*

Helmi wrote:

Apparently, you are too dense to notice the options in BASE.
Don't like the CCC, don't enable it, period.
Read the guide first, will ya!

There are so limited options in BASE that there isn't even a way to disable it. You either enable or disable the packs. That's it. That's all the option there is. And that doesn't solve the fact that it crashes out while building, with the defaults...

Helmi wrote:

Oh, and bugs are to be reported at the bugtracker, kthnx!

Oh, so it is a bug after all.

Helmi wrote:

Why are business class drivers unnecessary?
Lots of our users work as sys admin in big companies and those are exactly using aforementioned cards, you genius!

They don't belong along side the most common consumer class video drivers (Intel integrated video). I'd love to see you use your irrefutable logic to bend around that contradiction.

Helmi wrote:

So, should we cater for the single needs of you very shop now or what?
And the next shop having other five-tops producers gets their own packs, as well, hum?
Do you even realize how ridiculous such a request is?

Uh... I dunno what planet you live on, but those are the top 5 on the entire planet, not "in my little shop".

Helmi wrote:

Plus, BASE is auto-DLing the packs for you already, what kind of lazy bugger are you?

I guess you don't care about your own bandwidth. Smart move, why don't you tell that to your host.

Next, please... preferably someone that's not a total d*ck about it this time?

edit: Well, h*ll. Adding the graphics DriverPacks (even stripped down to their core) pushed me about 30mb over the CD capacity, and didn't even work properly. It's detected in WinPE's device manager, and I can activate the driver through Display Properties (and adjusting/setting the resolution), but it's not activated on startup. Since booting WinPE in the shop is a straight-through process in a busy environment, there's not even any benefit to it, since it requires extra steps to get the added acceleration of a proper video driver. So all that work for nothing, hooray.

edit edit: MassStorage, LAN, and Chipset are useful, though.

Last edited by FalconFour (2009-02-09 01:04:11)

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

FalconFour wrote:

I think DriverPacks are great

You're welcome.

Considering I'm the main contributor to all the Graphics DriverPacks, I guess you have a problem with me.
So be it.

As Helmi said earlier, the decision to organize the three Graphics DriverPacks the way they are now WAS MY IDEA, but everyone in the DriverPacks team and the Testing team collaborated and voted on that layout.  I didn't 'strong-arm' anyone or force the decision.

The three DriverPacks are organized like this:
DriverPack Graphics A: (A)ctive.  The drivers for the most active, common cards (desktop/mobile).  Cutting-edge stuff.
DriverPack Graphics B: (B)usiness.  The drivers for most business workstations, and the other mainstream drivers.
DriverPack Graphics C: (C)atch-all.  Drivers for outdated/obsolete hardware, or drivers that will never be updated.

I've tried to balance the three DriverPacks so the download size is similar.  Because the DriverPack Graphics A is lighter weight (because of the separate Language DriverPacks), I may merge \I1\ into DriverPack Graphics A because (like you pointed out) it's mainstream, and increasingly common.  I won't do that without collaborating with the team though.

In my opinion, SIS is dead (same with VIA).  They don't have a compelling mainstream product, nor can they compete at the budget level.  Game over, and they're all out of quarters.
Your opinion may differ, you're entitled to your own opinion.

I'll agree partly with you.  The main players are ATI/Nvidia/Intel, all the others are 2nd rate.

As to our bandwidth, isn't that our problem, not yours?  BTW, SimpleCDN DONATES our UNLIMITED bandwidth.
Our policy with all DriverPacks is: Stability first, maximum coverage second.
If you don't like what we provide, feel free to prune them down to what you consider an appropriate size.  Otherwise, build them yourself.

I'm being very patient.  Your first post came off as very arrogant and pushy.  Helmi's response was pointed, but measured. 
We will listen, but not if you're going to act like a prick.

If you have a legitimate bug, then read this thread before you post, then use the site search function to answer your own question.  If you can't find the answer, post a new thread in the appropriate section and ask your question (ask, not demand an answer).
Be nice, make contributions now and then, and you'll be a welcome addition to the DriverPacks family.
Be careful how you word your responses or your visit here will be brief.

Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

Erik, don't waste your time on this guy, apparently he is a blatant troll.
Not of the usual gimmegimme fraction but more the bitch&moan.

He wants us to do as he says and fulfill his special demands.
He's either too lazy to do the changes by himself for himself or simply too dumb to get it done right.
He didn't even realize there's CP options for DriverPack Graphics A after I explicitly shoved it under his nose...

That is exactly the kind of "customer" we don't need around here.

I can smell a troll among forum users (hence my strong reaction) and believe me, he's not the type that is going to contribute anything.

Suggestions are one thing, demands another.
If Jeff spots this, he's going to rip his head off, literally.

I was going to give him a second reply just for kicks, but I can use my time better.
I only left this open and didn't ban him for pure amusement - look at his pitiful attempts to justify his position wink
Maybe he can still serve as an example on how not to start your first post in here...

Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

What I'm trying to contribute, if you'd both get off your high horse and quit acting like your "product" is 110% perfect and deserves every cent out of my bank account (all $11 of it)... is that it can be better if you'd just take the moment to think about it. I don't know what the "most people" in both of your replies are using DriverPacks for, but I use it for a BartPE setup that I want to burn once and use on any Windows XP class computer. I don't expect it to work with Win2k-class computers with old Matrox or 3dfx video drivers. I just want it to work on "Most" computers, and that's not a lot to ask given there are only 5 major graphics contributors - 2 "dedicated" (ATI, nVidia) and 3 "integrated" (Intel, VIA, SiS) providers. VIA and SiS may be dead now, but old (and even moderately recent) AMD systems used them extensively.

It would be nice to see the ability for the DriverPacks BASE to selectively install manufacturers (by folder, perhaps). It would not take a lot of effort to enumerate the folders in a .7z archive, put up a list with checkboxes, check to see if someone unchecked an item, then send a different command to the 7-zip decompressor that specifies what files to extract. That would save a h*ll of a lot of effort.

On the topic of customization, I still don't even know what the h*ll Helmi is talking about with the CP options thing. It's either checked or unchecked. There are no options in BASE for it. You didn't "explicitly shove it under [my] nose", you mentioned something that, as far as I can tell, doesn't even exist. I can tell you "McDonald's sells video cards" and it holds about as much sense as what you said.

And about that bug? Why the h*ll is the only response I've been "we don't want to hear about it, tell it to the bug tracker" instead of "could you elaborate on your setup"? Clearly you don't even care... why would I add it to the bug tracker? I'm not a developer, why would I go and add something to the bugtracker?

Helmi, get an attitude adjustment. At least mr_smartepants isn't such a huge douchebag about everything.

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

Sigh...
OK, let me spell it out for you, because I honestly want to help make DriverPacks a better experience.

FalconFour wrote:

I still don't even know what the h*ll Helmi is talking about with the CP options thing. It's either checked or unchecked. There are no options in BASE for it.

What version of DriverPacks BASE are you using?
We have a tutorial, I wrote it.  It's a little dated, but it will still answer about 90% of your questions.  I suggest you read it.  And yes, it spells out the Control Panel options clearly.


IF you really want our help, AND you can read & follow instructions, THEN read this thread and tell us the info we need to know about this bug you keep referring to.
ELSE, any response other than to answer my above question will result in your account being locked (and prove Helmi was right about you).

FYI,
I never mentioned the bugtracker.
I never said our "product" was perfect.  Do you think I'd spend as much of my free time trying to fix it if it were?
You have some good ideas, and we will listen, if you treat us (yes, all of us) with respect.

Choose your words in your next post very carefully.

Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

mr_smartepants wrote:

What version of DriverPacks BASE are you using?

File version (Explorer) says 3.3.0.0 and the version in the title bar says "DriverPacks BASE 8.12.4 - wnt5_x86-32_bartpe". Screenshot with all available options: driverpacks.PNG

mr_smartepants wrote:

We have a tutorial, I wrote it.  It's a little dated, but it will still answer about 90% of your questions.  I suggest you read it.  And yes, it spells out the Control Panel options clearly.

Yeah, that's pretty clearly laid out. Too bad my GUI doesn't seem to have almost any of those options.

mr_smartepants wrote:

IF you really want our help, AND you can read & follow instructions, THEN read this thread and tell us the info we need to know about this bug you keep referring to.

1. Check the FAQ forum
(Did.)
2. Use the search function
(Countless times.)
3. Choose a good topic title.
(Well, can't change that now...)
- Don't forget to MENTION the relevant DriverPack (or DriverPacks BASE) and its VERSION in the TITLE.
(Did that above.)
4. Don't forget to COPY/PASTE these files INSIDE CODE TAGS.
- DPs_BASE.ini (from the same directory as DPs_BASE.exe)

[General]
; preferred language
prefLang	= "English"
; yes/no, enable or disable the wizard-style buttons, if not specified: yes
wizardButtons	= "yes"
; yes/no, enable or disable the GUI, if not specified: yes
GUI		= "yes"


[Settings]
; disc/bartpe/multibootDisc
instPlatform	= "bartpe"
; trailing backslash is allowed, but not necessary
location	= "Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin"
; none/all/select, if select, specify them below, if not specified: all
DriverPacks	= "select"
; 1/2, method to install the DriverPacks, if not specified: 2
DPsMethod	= "2"
; GUIRunOnce/RunOnceEx/custom, if not specified: GUIRunOnce
finisherMethod	= "GUIRunOnce"


; this section is optional!
[OptionalSettings]
; none/all/select/paths/patterns, enable or disable Keep The Drivers (KTD) , if not specified: none
KTD		= "false"
; <path>, to specify a custom KTD cache location, if not specified: default (%SystemRoot%\DriverPacks)
KTDlocation	= "%SystemRoot%\DriverPacks"
; yes/no, enable or disable QuickStream Cache (QSC), if not specified: yes
QSC		= "no"


; you should only add this section if you've set [Settings]\DriverPacks to "select"
[SelectDriverPacks]
DP_Chipset	= "no"
DP_CPU		= "no"
DP_Graphics_A	= "no"
DP_Graphics_B	= "no"
DP_Graphics_C	= "no"
DP_LAN		= "no"
DP_MassStorage	= "yes"
DP_MassStorage_textmode = "no"

(curiously, those weren't the checkboxes I checked)
- DPs_BASE.log (from the same directory as DPs_BASE.exe)
(This is with the official Graphics A pack selected only)

2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> DriverPacks BASE 8.12.4 initialized.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> Host environment: WIN_XP Service Pack 3 on X86 CPU.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> Old temporary working directory deleted.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> Created temporary working directory.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> Imported proxy settings from Internet Explorer.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> Start scanning for DriverPacks for the wnt5_x86-32 platform.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> 	Detected DriverPack Chipset 803!
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> 	Detected DriverPack CPU 804!
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> 	Detected DriverPack Graphics A 8121!
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> 	Detected DriverPack Graphics B 8121!
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> 	Detected DriverPack Graphics C 8121!
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> 	Detected DriverPack LAN 8121!
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> 	Detected DriverPack MassStorage 901!
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> 	Could not detect any 3rd party DriverPacks for wnt5_x86-32.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> 	Finished scanning.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> Detected settings file "Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin\DriverPacks.net\BASE\DPs_BASE.ini".
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> [Settings]\DPsMethod not specified: default (2) was set.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> [Settings]\finisherMethod not specified: default (GUIRunOnce) was set.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> [OptionalSettings]\KTD not specified: default (none) was set.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> [OptionalSettings]\QSC not specified: default (yes) was set.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> [OptionalSettingsOther]\ATI_cpl not specified: default (None) was set.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> [OptionalSettingsOther]\Nvidia_cpl not specified: default (None) was set.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> wnt5_x86-32_bartpe is the selected installation platform .
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> Imported settings from settings file.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <INIT> [OptionalSettings]\QSC BartPE default (no)    was set.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <GUI>  Initialized GUI.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <GUI>  Created a list of all available language files.
2009-02-08 14:36:14 : <GUI>  Set the last used language, English, as the GUI language.
2009-02-08 14:36:27 : <GUI>  Saved settings!
2009-02-08 14:36:27 : <GUI>  Closed GUI.
2009-02-08 14:36:28 : <SEL>  Selected module: mod_slip_wnt5_x86-32_bartpe.
2009-02-08 14:36:30 : <PREP> Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin\DriverPacks.net\Chipset was deleted.
2009-02-08 14:36:31 : <PREP> Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin\DriverPacks.net\CPU was deleted.
2009-02-08 14:36:31 : <PREP> Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin\DriverPacks.net\Graphics_A\Graphics_A.inf info written.
2009-02-08 14:36:31 : <PREP> Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin\DriverPacks.net\LAN was deleted.
2009-02-08 14:36:32 : <PREP> Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin\DriverPacks.net\MassStorage was deleted.
2009-02-08 14:36:32 : <PREP> Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin\DriverPacks.net\MassStorage\MassStorage.inf header info written.
2009-02-08 14:36:39 : <SLIP> Extracted DriverPack MassStorage to a temporary working directory.
2009-02-08 14:36:39 : <SLIP> Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin\DriverPacks.net\BASE\tmp\DPMtmp\DriverPack_MassStorage_wnt5_x86-32.ini
2009-02-08 14:36:40 : <SLIP> Processing the files now. This may take a minute.
2009-02-08 14:37:03 : <SLIP> Copied DriverPack MassStorage text mode driver files to BartPE Plugin folder.
2009-02-08 14:37:03 : <SLIP> Slipstreamed DriverPack MassStorage text mode driver files.
2009-02-08 14:37:09 : <SLIP> Updated the MassStorage.ini [SetValue] sections to support DP MassStorage text mode drivers.
2009-02-08 14:37:44 : <PLUGIN> Extracted DriverPack Graphics A.
2009-02-08 14:37:44 : <PLUGIN> Started CAB compressing DriverPack Graphics A (estimated 7.2 minutes).
2009-02-08 14:37:44 : <PLUGIN> Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin\DriverPacks.net\BASE\tmp\DriverPacks\DriverPack Graphics A\DriverPack_Graphics_A_wnt5_x86-32.ini
2009-02-08 14:38:21 : <PLUGIN> Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin\DriverPacks.net\BASE\tmp\DriverPacks\DriverPack Graphics A\D\G\A1\CPanel, \wnt5, LAYOUT.BI?
2009-02-08 14:38:21 : <PLUGIN> Finished CAB compressing DriverPack Graphics A.
2009-02-08 14:38:21 : <PLUGIN> Saved settings!
2009-02-08 14:38:21 : <PLUGIN> Slipstream finished in 1 minutes and 54 seconds.
2009-02-08 14:38:24 : <CLNP> Temporary working directory successfully deleted.
- = DriverPacks BASE ini settings used = -
[General]
; preferred language
prefLang	= "English"
; yes/no, enable or disable the wizard-style buttons, if not specified: yes
wizardButtons	= "yes"
; yes/no, enable or disable the GUI, if not specified: yes
GUI		= "yes"


[Settings]
; disc/bartpe/multibootDisc
instPlatform	= "bartpe"
; trailing backslash is allowed, but not necessary
location	= "Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin"
; none/all/select, if select, specify them below, if not specified: all
DriverPacks	= "select"
; 1/2, method to install the DriverPacks, if not specified: 2
DPsMethod	= "2"
; GUIRunOnce/RunOnceEx/custom, if not specified: GUIRunOnce
finisherMethod	= "GUIRunOnce"


; this section is optional!
[OptionalSettings]
; none/all/select/paths/patterns, enable or disable Keep The Drivers (KTD) , if not specified: none
KTD		= "false"
; <path>, to specify a custom KTD cache location, if not specified: default (%SystemRoot%\DriverPacks)
KTDlocation	= "%SystemRoot%\DriverPacks"
; yes/no, enable or disable QuickStream Cache (QSC), if not specified: yes
QSC		= "no"


; you should only add this section if you've set [Settings]\DriverPacks to "select"
[SelectDriverPacks]
DP_Chipset	= "no"
DP_CPU		= "no"
DP_Graphics_A	= "yes"
DP_Graphics_B	= "no"
DP_Graphics_C	= "no"
DP_LAN		= "no"
DP_MassStorage	= "no"
DP_MassStorage_textmode = "yes"
2009-02-08 14:38:24 : <CLNP> Create a DPs_Base.log backup @ Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin\DriverPacks.net\BASE\LogFiles\DPs_BASE_09-02-08_14-38.log
2009-02-08 14:38:24 : <CLNP> Program terminated.
2009-02-08 14:38:25 : <GUI>  Closed GUI.
2009-02-08 14:38:25 : <GUI>  Saved settings!
- = DriverPacks BASE ini settings used = -
[General]
; preferred language
prefLang	= "English"
; yes/no, enable or disable the wizard-style buttons, if not specified: yes
wizardButtons	= "yes"
; yes/no, enable or disable the GUI, if not specified: yes
GUI		= "yes"


[Settings]
; disc/bartpe/multibootDisc
instPlatform	= "bartpe"
; trailing backslash is allowed, but not necessary
location	= "Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin"
; none/all/select, if select, specify them below, if not specified: all
DriverPacks	= "select"
; 1/2, method to install the DriverPacks, if not specified: 2
DPsMethod	= "2"
; GUIRunOnce/RunOnceEx/custom, if not specified: GUIRunOnce
finisherMethod	= "GUIRunOnce"


; this section is optional!
[OptionalSettings]
; none/all/select/paths/patterns, enable or disable Keep The Drivers (KTD) , if not specified: none
KTD		= "false"
; <path>, to specify a custom KTD cache location, if not specified: default (%SystemRoot%\DriverPacks)
KTDlocation	= "%SystemRoot%\DriverPacks"
; yes/no, enable or disable QuickStream Cache (QSC), if not specified: yes
QSC		= "no"


; you should only add this section if you've set [Settings]\DriverPacks to "select"
[SelectDriverPacks]
DP_Chipset	= "no"
DP_CPU		= "no"
DP_Graphics_A	= "no"
DP_Graphics_B	= "no"
DP_Graphics_C	= "no"
DP_LAN		= "no"
DP_MassStorage	= "yes"
DP_MassStorage_textmode = "no"
2009-02-08 14:38:26 : <GUI>  Create a DPs_Base.log backup @ Z:\UBCD4Win\plugin\DriverPacks.net\BASE\LogFiles\DPs_BASE_09-02-08_14-38-26.log
2009-02-08 14:38:26 : <GUI>  Program terminated.

5. Tell us what you did - Could we try to reproduce your issue ourselves just based on your first post?
I downloaded UBCD4Win, which included DriverPacks.net BASE and an old version of MassStorage. I updated MassStorage, then downloaded CPU, Chipset, LAN, and Graphics B (which had Intel). I cracked open Graphics B and took out everything but Intel drivers, then re7z'd it and renamed the original version to ".old" and put the modified version in its place. Then I hit "slipstream" and let it work, and it went fine. Then I downloaded Graphics A and let it work. As I watched the output Graphics A folder grow, I noticed that there were no nVidia drivers in that folder. Looking at the log, I found that it didn't even mention the "N" folders, and it finished processing very quickly with no errors. It was completely ignoring the "N" folders. I extracted the file, and started comparing against my Intel setup that worked (I had to remove a bunch of sections from the INI file that no longer existed, and was down to just the header info). I did the same for the Graphics A INI file, I just removed everything but the header with file/folder info. It still didn't work (if I remember correctly). Then I deleted the "setup" folders from the "A1" folder (AVIVO, CCC, CPanel), and tried again. One or the other (I can't remember which I did) worked, but now it only mentioned N1 and N5 folders in the log (and it took much longer). I recompressed to 7z after each modification. But it did include the files in the (now much larger) output folder. That's where I am now, but for sake of uniformity, I restored the original 7z's, and it still does the same thing.

6. Submit it to the bugtracker if it turns out to be a BUG. Attach the relevant files there as well.
Well, soon as it turns out to be a bug and not just part of BartPE integration's strange behavior (like not allowing "custom" driverpacks)...

On a related note, thanks for not just banning me outright... wink

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

Moved topic to BartPE section.
OK, I don't use BartPE, or UBCD4win so I don't know how to help you.  I moved the topic here.  Maybe someone versed in those utilities can help.
Can you decompress DriverPack Graphics A, removed the below entries from each header, then recompress and try again?

; BartPE Code
ms_count	 	= 1
ms_1_tag 	= "N1_nv4"
ms_1_sysfile 	= "nv4_mini.sys"
ms_1_exc_skipIfOS="wxp,w2k3"

I'm pretty sure that's what's screwing your integration.

Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

That worked a whole lot better. It went through A1, N1, and N5 and took a whole 5 minutes to process this time (can't... figure out why... but it did).

Now if only we could figure out why I don't have those control panel options from the tutorial...

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

That must be because of the BartPE plug-in you're using. 
On your BartPE installs, does the DriverPacks Finisher run during GUIRunOnce or RunOnceEx?  If so, then you can easily trigger the control panel install for ATI by adding an empty text file to your source OEM folder and rename it ATICCC.ins or ATICCP.ins.

Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

OK since Helmi to care of most of my issues with this guy (TY Helmi)

I am only going to add this... We are not on a high horse nor other lofty place.
We do average 32,000 downloads a day. (Yes that is Thirty Two Thousand)
(not counting the downloads that are included with UBCD4Win)
So why is it - if we have Millions of users you are the ONLY one with a problem. ???
You are welcome to go through all of our posts dating back over 5 years here and on MSFN.
Please notice that you are alone on your perch and we have millions of supporters (a month)...
which of us is on that high horse? I assure you the attitude problem is on your side...

furthermore the BartPE; Graphics, LAN and WLAN features are a RC features of DriverPacks BASE.

If you were not such a PE noob it would not have taken you so long to fight this issue.
Anyone who has any experience with UBCD4Win at all knows PE uses VESA support for graphics drivers.
- I suspect you are young and unfamiliar with VESA (and manners). 

Just because DriverPacks BASE will do something does not mean you should do it...
You went off on a tangent trying to fix something that does not need to be fixed.
You then failed, because of your lack of experience and failure to do the neccessary research.
Then you thought it would be a good idea to blame us.
Then you attack the two most likely candidates to offer you help.
Your failings and lack of experience are not our fault.
   or  Guns don't kill people / Someone has to pull the trigger wink )

The bottom line is the only card manufacturer who does not support the VESA standard is Intel.
The ONLY video card drivers you need to complete your UBCD4Win build are Intel... the others are optional.
There will be an intel only button in a future release of DriverPacks BASE... as I stated all but mass are RC features of BASE for BartPE.
In the near future you will be able to just select a box for 'Intel Only' as an option in DriverPacks BASE.
Again it is not our fault that you did not know that all video cards support VESA directly (Except Intel) and therefore don't need drivers for UBCD4Win.

So you are mad at us because you chose to waste your own time and you did so without doing the proper research first.
I just don't have words for that depth of ignorance. Unlike my gracious friends I don't give second warnings - be nice or be gone.

my suggestion to you is
prune DriverPack Graphics C down to Intel only and use that big_smile

Had you been Clear (detailed) and Nice we could have just told you that wink
As I wrote * 5. Tell us what you did - Could we try to reproduce your issue ourselves just based on your first post?
Clearly the answer to number five is no... is that also our fault
or another glareing example of your failure to do the proper research or provide Clear and Detailed Info?
(IE what version of UBCD4Win)
Truely it is better that my freinds got here first, I would not have been so gracious.

Jeff

PS I assume (since you don't seem to be big on research and finding things on your own) that you did not know that you need to remove the \drivers\Net folder from your UBCD4Win folder if you add LAN and WLAN with DriverPacks BASE.

PSS No control panels in UBCD4win...
You can't run an installer on a ROM and is why the finisher and related control panels are disabled, they won't run successfuly.
Please remember BartPE is a sideline here, our main user base is Unattended installations. the files you thought were unneccessary are quite neccessary for a normal install. They are not copied to your plugin either. (Oh and while I am thinking about it, just because two files have the same name does not mean they are identical...)

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

mr_smartepants wrote:

That must be because of the BartPE plug-in you're using. 
On your BartPE installs, does the DriverPacks Finisher run during GUIRunOnce or RunOnceEx?  If so, then you can easily trigger the control panel install for ATI by adding an empty text file to your source OEM folder and rename it ATICCC.ins or ATICCP.ins.

Aye, but I don't want the control panel. That's what was pissing me off. It looks like parts of it were getting thrown in there anyway.

And oh boy, looks like I have another high-horse to kick in the knees. Anyone that "TY"'s Helmi has got their head in the wrong guy's ass.

OverFlow wrote:

I am only going to add this... We are not on a high horse nor other lofty place.

Sure doesn't seem like "only", because you just tl;dr'd your keyboard off with a bunch of rambling and other incorrect information.

OverFlow wrote:

So why is it - if we have Millions of users you are the ONLY one with a problem. ???

Clearly, given that there's an entire forum of people here with problems and questions. (edit: also, you seem to forget the silent majority factor. 100,000 people will pass by and use your site, 10,000 people will have a problem with it and leave, while only 1 of those people with a problem will post something about it.)

OverFlow wrote:

furthermore the BartPE; Graphics, LAN and WLAN features are a RC features of DriverPacks BASE.

What does this even mean...

OverFlow wrote:

If you were not such a PE noob it would not have taken you so long to fight this issue.
Anyone who has any experience with UBCD4Win at all knows PE uses VESA support for graphics drivers.
- I suspect you are young and unfamiliar with VESA (and manners).

Oh! Oh! Here it goes again! I'm the noob! Yeah, that's it, I'm the noob. Can't come up with a better insult than "noob"? Even if it's not even true? How's about this for noob... you saying PE only uses VESA support (and yes you dolt, I know full well what VESA/VBE is). It works just like Windows. You give it a video driver after it's loaded VgaSave, and it'll run the video using that driver the next time you change resolutions. Same thing happened when I loaded the Graphics pack onto a PE disc and started it up. It started with the crap VgaSave driver, but when I went to the display control panel and changed resolutions, it started up the appropriate driver that was already loaded but not initialized. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you didn't know that either.

OverFlow wrote:

Just because DriverPacks BASE will do something does not mean you should do it...
You went off on a tangent trying to fix something that does not need to be fixed.

Uh, combining nVidia, ATI, Intel, SiS, and VIA drivers is something that does need to be looked at. IMO, DriverPacks A could be the dedicated graphics (ATI, nVidia) that get updated a lot, B could be the integrated GPU drivers (Intel, SiS, VIA), and C could be the "exotic" drivers like business class ATI/nVidia, and the old cards. Is that too obscure to ask? No, it's not... and it's something that should be done.

OverFlow wrote:

The bottom line is the only card manufacturer who does not support the VESA standard is Intel.
The ONLY video card drivers you need to complete your UBCD4Win build are Intel... the others are optional.

Which is why I'm here. The "ONLY" graphics driver I need is intel, yet your little DriverPacks BASE forces me to install ALL THE DRIVERS from the Graphics B set in order to get them. Similarly, the only drivers I need from C are SiS and VIA, yet I would otherwise have had to install TONS OF OTHER GARBAGE on my already packed disc. I just went ahead and burned the disc without any support. On a related note, if I did install the Intel drivers on my PE disc, they wouldn't be of any use anyway, because the VBE drivers are loaded by Windows and start up first... I'd end up having to make that extra trip to the Display Control Panel to set the resolution and initialize the driver anyway. There are so many flaws with this statement I could go on for pages.

OverFlow wrote:

my suggestion to you is
prune DriverPack Graphics C down to Intel only and use that big_smile

"my suggestion to you is
let me prune DriverPack Graphics C down to Intel only from the gui and use that big_smile"

OverFlow wrote:

As I wrote * 5. Tell us what you did - Could we try to reproduce your issue ourselves just based on your first post?
Clearly the answer to number five is no... is that also our fault

Uh, you haven't even tried what I said, then. That's your fault for not even trying.

OverFlow wrote:

PS I assume (since you don't seem to be big on research and finding things on your own) that you did not know that you need to remove the \drivers\Net folder from your UBCD4Win folder if you add LAN and WLAN with DriverPacks BASE.

Uh, I didn't install WLAN. Also, if I have to remove \drivers\net from the folder, then why the h*ll doesn't DriverPacks BASE take care of that for me instead of leaving me in the dark about it - or even providing any useful information at all to hint at it? Seems like a rather ridiculous arbitrary request to delete a folder, don't 'ya think?

OverFlow wrote:

PSS No control panels in UBCD4win...
You can't run an installer on a ROM and is why the finisher and related control panels are disabled, they won't run successfuly.
Please remember BartPE is a sideline here, our main user base is Unattended installations. the files you thought were unneccessary are quite neccessary for a normal install. They are not copied to your plugin either. (Oh and while I am thinking about it, just because two files have the same name does not mean they are identical...)

Yeah, given that I wasn't even presented with the option, I was looking for a way to ensure they were not included.

You assuming I'm a n00b has set you up with so many false assumptions in your reply it's almost 95% chest-beating and 5% useful information. You know what it's called when you spend 95% of your post beating your chest? Being on a high horse. Hopefully now you're off your high horse.

Last edited by FalconFour (2009-02-10 09:25:48)

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

Dude I have been in the Computer field since 1968.
Everyone is a noob to me, you however have redefined noob... ... and now your banned.
Normaly i would take the time to banter with you but i am not in the mood ATM.


you were warned. 7 day Hiatus awarded to the twit.

Just curious what incorrect info I rambled...
we get a million DL's a month lets apply your math
1 in a hundred thousand report an issue we get around three hundred thousand DL's a week.
So three people a week should be reporting your issue... yet there is only yours.

you are the one who said that you were working for nothing as an intern...
Why would you be offended if we assume that if your time is not worth paying for that you are a noob...

Note to Mods: if Gollum posts here, go ahead and lift the twits ban... wink

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

What's the point of integrating graphic drivers into PE ? You plan playing Call Of Duty on PE or what ? LAN, Chipset and Mass covers everything needed for emergency CDs.

Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

Helmi called the ball on this one...
I have never even seen him post anything that was 'not nice' before... 

He really did have this guys number right out of the chute...
Probably best for everyone that I had a long day and was tired wink LOL

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

JakeLD wrote:

What's the point of integrating graphic drivers into PE ? You plan playing Call Of Duty on PE or what ? LAN, Chipset and Mass covers everything needed for emergency CDs.

I agree. I've always been satisfied with just default vgasave device myself in PE.

But others use their PE more as a portable temporary replacement OS. %SystemDrive% can be writable with File-Based Write-Filter or SDI (or alternatively even a RAW disk) ram-booting image.

WinBuilder nativeEx project has explorer as shell sized in ~60-70mb. Functioning control panel and device manager allowing installation of drivers.

It is conceivable, then, that some might desire to include graphics drivers. Of course, I do not at all mean that the original poster was in any way justified with his demands! Just trying to think why someone might want to do this.

Regards,
Galapo.

Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

According to him he wants a recovery CD for a shop he is interning at...
So the answer is: He does not need them at all... and he is too stupid and arrogant to realize or admit it wink

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

Well, I'm one of "the others" Galapo has mentioned.
I’m a university professor involved in teaching biochemistry, molecular biology and bioinformatics to undergraduate and graduate students.
Regarding the teaching of bioinformatics, before the advent of BartPE I had to struggle every beginning of academic term in order to get twenty or so computers with all the specific software I needed and properly configured for the students to use.
Then I found out about the remarkable BartPE and managed to set up a CD containing all the basic bioinformatics software I needed. Needless to say it was a huge success and the students were amazed to see so much functionality in a single live CD. Recently I've upgraded to a DVD including a Ubuntu virtual machine, allowing me to run Linux software side by side with Windows.
Some of the programs we use require graphics of a decente resolution and the Graphics Pack are helping a lot.
I know the main use of BartPE is as a support tool (the reason it was developed in the first place!) but it can also be an invaluable tool in teaching.

Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

We are so glad to be of service to you! Thanks so much for your feedback!
I don't think any of us doubted that there were legitimate uses. ( that is why I added them wink )

This OP is not in that category big_smile

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

Well I recieved news that the troll patrol is inbound.
I have had a good day of rest so I am in a good mood for it too.
( I don't like to rip peoples heads off when I am in a bad mood, I get too carried away. smile )

I am removing the twits ban early... in anticipation.

Let the games begin!

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

FalconFour wrote:

Aye, but I don't want the control panel. That's what was pissing me off. It looks like parts of it were getting thrown in there anyway.

and your blind - no they were not in any way included.

FalconFour wrote:

And oh boy, looks like I have another high-horse to kick in the knees. Anyone that "TY"'s Helmi has got their head in the wrong guy's ass.

I take this to mean that anyone who does not have their head up your ass has their head up the wrong ass...
I am quite certain the only head up your ass is your boyfriends...

FalconFour wrote:
OverFlow wrote:

furthermore the BartPE; Graphics, LAN and WLAN features are a RC features of DriverPacks BASE.

What does this even mean...

an experienced tech would know exactly what this means...
Or even someone (a noob even) who had bothered to take ten seconds to read the news on our home page.
now that I reflect a little... perhaps I have insulted noobs everywhere by including the likes of you in their group.
At least a noob has the good sense to realize they don't know all the answers. I am recatagorizing you as an idiot.

FalconFour wrote:
OverFlow wrote:

If you were not such a PE noob it would not have taken you so long to fight this issue.
Anyone who has any experience with UBCD4Win at all knows PE uses VESA support for graphics drivers.
- I suspect you are young and unfamiliar with VESA (and manners).

Oh! Oh! Here it goes again! I'm the noob! Yeah, that's it, I'm the noob. Can't come up with a better insult than "noob"? Even if it's not even true? How's about this for noob... you saying PE only uses VESA support (and yes you dolt, I know full well what VESA/VBE is). It works just like Windows. You give it a video driver after it's loaded VgaSave, and it'll run the video using that driver the next time you change resolutions. Same thing happened when I loaded the Graphics pack onto a PE disc and started it up. It started with the crap VgaSave driver, but when I went to the display control panel and changed resolutions, it started up the appropriate driver that was already loaded but not initialized. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you didn't know that either.

You are so ignorant there is just not a scale to measure it...
windows came out in the 90's VESA came out in the late 80's.
VESA Predates windows you ignoramus. You don't know a tenth of what you think you do.

FalconFour wrote:
OverFlow wrote:

Just because DriverPacks BASE will do something does not mean you should do it...
You went off on a tangent trying to fix something that does not need to be fixed.

Uh, combining nVidia, ATI, Intel, SiS, and VIA drivers is something that does need to be looked at. IMO, DriverPacks A could be the dedicated graphics (ATI, nVidia) that get updated a lot, B could be the integrated GPU drivers (Intel, SiS, VIA), and C could be the "exotic" drivers like business class ATI/nVidia, and the old cards. Is that too obscure to ask? No, it's not... and it's something that should be done.

Yes it is obscure...
most updated in A,
most common in B, Business use is our biggest audience, bar none.
least likely to change in C.

You have made no argument that sways anyones opinion to change the basic layout.
- I will give you some credit here, moving Intel to DriverPack Graphics A or B has some merit, and will be considered. big_smile

FalconFour wrote:
OverFlow wrote:

The bottom line is the only card manufacturer who does not support the VESA standard is Intel.
The ONLY video card drivers you need to complete your UBCD4Win build are Intel... the others are optional.

Which is why I'm here. The "ONLY" graphics driver I need is intel, yet your little DriverPacks BASE forces me to install ALL THE DRIVERS from the Graphics B set in order to get them. Similarly, the only drivers I need from C are SiS and VIA, yet I would otherwise have had to install TONS OF OTHER GARBAGE on my already packed disc. I just went ahead and burned the disc without any support. On a related note, if I did install the Intel drivers on my PE disc, they wouldn't be of any use anyway, because the VBE drivers are loaded by Windows and start up first... I'd end up having to make that extra trip to the Display Control Panel to set the resolution and initialize the driver anyway. There are so many flaws with this statement I could go on for pages.

Strange don't you think that you were totaly unaware of the fact that intel are the only drivers you need and you never even mentioned it until I told you about it. Then you contradict yourself saying you also need SIS and VIA, which you do not. No one FORCED you to do anything - your results are the fruits of your labor, or lack thereof. I equate what you have done to borrowing a hammer and saw to build a birdhouse and then blaming the guy you borrowed the tools from because your bird house looks like sh*t. He didn't build it he just supplied the tools. It's entirely your fault you don't know how to use the tools that you got for free wink RTFM buddie!

FalconFour wrote:
OverFlow wrote:

my suggestion to you is
prune DriverPack Graphics C down to Intel only and use that big_smile

"my suggestion to you is
let me prune DriverPack Graphics C down to Intel only from the gui and use that big_smile"

Its a free world man, go ahead and write yourself a program for that wink have fun!
(LOL I would love to see how that turns out wink)
Or you could put some cash in my paypal account to compensate me for implementing your custom change request... big_smile 
note: 11 dollars gets you about four minutes of my time.

FalconFour wrote:
OverFlow wrote:

As I wrote * 5. Tell us what you did - Could we try to reproduce your issue ourselves just based on your first post?
Clearly the answer to number five is no... is that also our fault

Uh, you haven't even tried what I said, then. That's your fault for not even trying.

I looked again at your first post...
There is nothing at all (not one word) useful to help me reproduce your issue anywhere in that post wink.

FalconFour wrote:
OverFlow wrote:

PS I assume (since you don't seem to be big on research and finding things on your own) that you did not know that you need to remove the \drivers\Net folder from your UBCD4Win folder if you add LAN and WLAN with DriverPacks BASE.

Uh, I didn't install WLAN. Also, if I have to remove \drivers\net from the folder, then why the h*ll doesn't DriverPacks BASE take care of that for me instead of leaving me in the dark about it - or even providing any useful information at all to hint at it? Seems like a rather ridiculous arbitrary request to delete a folder, don't 'ya think?

You are not very bright are you.
I never said you did install WLAN... the advise does also apply to WLAN though...
You would assume that UBCD4Win is the only build of BartPE available?
Or am I to attempt to program for every single variation/distribution of BartPE out there? (dumb ass)
Your UBCD4Win came preconfigured correctly with only mass enabled.
YOU changed it and You failed to investigate what was required to make the changes YOU chose. Your fault entirely.
Had you used UBCD4Win "Out of the Box" without customizing it you would have succeded on your first try big_smile
You were not left in the dark, the info is clearly posted at UBCD4Win. You just failed looking for it if you even bothered to look at all. the request is neither arbitrary nor ridiculous.  It is a well known fact to experienced users, a group you are blatantly not a member of.


FalconFour wrote:
OverFlow wrote:

PSS No control panels in UBCD4win...
You can't run an installer on a ROM and is why the finisher and related control panels are disabled, they won't run successfuly.
Please remember BartPE is a sideline here, our main user base is Unattended installations. the files you thought were unneccessary are quite neccessary for a normal install. They are not copied to your plugin either. (Oh and while I am thinking about it, just because two files have the same name does not mean they are identical...)

Yeah, given that I wasn't even presented with the option, I was looking for a way to ensure they were not included.

I tried to make it so even an idiot could use it... but unfortunately you show up and we have discovered "The better idiot".
(If you make something idiot proof, then they will invent a better idiot. Author unknown)

FalconFour wrote:

You assuming I'm a n00b has set you up with so many false assumptions in your reply it's almost 95% chest-beating and 5% useful information. You know what it's called when you spend 95% of your post beating your chest? Being on a high horse. Hopefully now you're off your high horse.

I am a programmer I assume nothing. You work for free as an intern that equals noob.
If you were experienced you would have a pay for position somewhere and no time or desire to intern for free.
I will reiterate the attitude problem is entirely yours, and yours alone.

PS I think this quite mild compared to what the team has tried repeatedly to warn you about wink
Care to try again... I will see if i can let the 'true me' shine through next time big_smile

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

FalconFour is bitter about something, that's for sure.  And he decided to take his frustration out on us.  Fine.
Someone who thinks they know how to fix/operate/repair computers is infinitely more dangerous to those systems than someone who knows nothing.  The worst security risk to any network is from within (users).

Ignorance is the absence of knowledge
The true solution to ignorance is education, not discipline.
Although, if a student steadfastly refuses to listen to the teacher, he will not learn; regardless of how great the teacher is or how many times he is hit on the wrist with a ruler.
That is beyond our control.
Pity...

Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

Someone said Troll....so here i am, and they didn’t even have to say it thrice.
Just say it once in any forum a newbie is spouting off in and my little ears prick up, i get a semi and i turn NoScript off and join in where I’m needed

Since i have been summoned forth by a comment such as this:

Well I received news that the troll patrol is inbound.

I am therefore compelled to appear and put in my 5 cents worth, though as usual i only have a $50 note on me....

The troll apologises, he was far from your lands on other tasks for a great bulk of the day in the Real World and has only just now managed to make his way back into the tower of solitude and make use once more of its magical interweb interface.

When i set about answering a post, i immediately scan for certain keywords and phrases, among them are

I have X years of experience...
I work at geeks r us...
I work at geek squad...
I’m part of a development team...
I’m interning at...

And then i set about rendering an appropriate response, guaranteed to address the central issue raised by such statements: overconfidence and sometimes complete lack of understanding shown by the postee regarding the uses and purpose of whatever projects thread/forum they’re posting in.

Before prostituting my knowledge in forums i ask the postee to consider the following steps to understanding ones self and their predicament:

Recognising the issue didn’t cause itself
Accepting your stupidity caused it
Noting your own limitations, but blundering on anyways
Keeping on with fruitless tinkering in the hope *something* will magically resolve the issue

At last, in utter desperation, posting a message on an internet forum asking for some kind soul to help you resolve the issue
Making the mistake of posting on a forum frequented by Gollum/Frodo, a known troll
Again realising you’ve made a major error
Totally disregarding advice given by Gollum/Frodo or any forum member because you think you know better
Exaggerating your own technical skills in a fit of self importance
Using the words "I’ve already tried that" when all symptoms/evidence cause and effect completely contradicts your words
Returning weeks later, moments before we delete your profile because we've all agreed "well, I’m going to miss him , but he wont be back", and telling us you FINALLY took our advice and your PC is now working

But i digress.....

We're here to address some misunderstandings and criticisms raised by a newbie, FalconFour, and i am the very man to handle this with respect, dignity and decorum....

I think I’ve already covered that my interest is peaked by keywords, in this case intern.
So here we go....

Ridiculous Statement #1:

One thing's been having me bash my head against a wall, though. The driver packs for graphics are split up by some ridiculous criteria with no real-world purpose.

Respectful Answer:

Keep banging your head on the wall halfwit, all the answers to the universe are to be found once you have severed your frontal lobe with vigorous impacts against immovable objects. Its an arrogant person who, being a newbie, openly questions a projects methods BEFORE reading documentation. Especially when its plainly available on even the intro page before you go to download them. It would be obvious to anyone with half a grey cell the reasoning why. But even if it wasn’t, wouldn’t it be far more polite to ask why they were split, rather than making out like this decision had caused you immeasurable grief leading to hair loss and a limp ding dong.

The project has been around for many years, and i'll wager you'll change your philosophy before the project changes its.

Ridiculous Statement #2:
We've got nVidia and ATI (the two "dedicated GPU" manufacturers) grouped into "A" along with a bunch of unnecessary control panel installation trash on the ATI side (that, in fact, causes the driver pack to not slipstream properly - it "crashes out" silently after integrating A1 acting like it completed - that's the bug referenced in the title)

Respectful Answer:

Thanks for the clear and well documented bug report (okay later on you almost got it right and you almost got a smiley stamp, but then you reverted to abuse). What frickin bug report. Um hello I’m just posting to say i found a bug at X point in the process. The free silly T-Shirt for your effort is in the mail, along with a Scuba Diving for Dummies book - First Lesson: Get a bucket, dip head in 10 times, but come up 9 times only for a pass mark.

Ridiculous Statement #3:
Then we've got VIA and SiS drivers, this time with a bunch of outdated manufacturers nobody cares about.

Respectful Answer:
People actually still use these old cards. Perhaps in your universe, im going out on a limb here, where you probably have an SLI setup and spend all your time going on super gay quests with your friends in Buttmuncher - World Of Asscraft, this outdated stuff seems useless. But spend a second thinking about places like where i have volunteered, at the Salvation Army etc where old PC's get reconditioned and donated both locally and overseas. To people doing this, having these drivers in a driverpack make life easier when you’re doing a room full of dissimilar systems.

Ridiculous Statement #4:
nVidia, ATI, Intel, VIA, and SiS are the five manufacturers that produce the graphics chips on about 95-98% of the computers in the shop - including laptops

Respectful Answer:
The first statement you’ve made that is sane and true, although i had to prune it from the paragraph to separate it from the nonsense that follows. And because of the nonsense that follows, I’m leaving this heading set to Ridiculous Statement #4.

Ridiculous Statement #5:
So far I've had to waste hours of time and tons of bandwidth downloading - then repackaging and recompressing and bug-testing - those driver packs, trying to get all 3 installed with just the components that are actually relevant to me. How come the "Big 5" aren't packaged into "A" or maybe just A and B? Doesn't it seem a little excessive that I'd have to download all 3 to get the drivers I need?

Respectful Answer:
Unless the resident secret forum ninja actually tracked you down at your home or office, then held your genitals in the infamous "squirrel grip" and said he'd only let go when you'd visited driverpacks.net and the words download completed on each of the driverpacks, i fail to see the possibility that anyone forced you to do anything against your will. I’m not aware of a resident forum ninja, though there’s probably a molester uncle on here given accepted odds of such things in a large collective of people. For the record I’m into cheese and livestock myself, I don’t do humans.

But i digress....

Hours you say? are you using a Wargames era acoustic coupler modem? If so, i can understand the frustration, i used to own one and can remember the length of time it took to download Samantha Fox Strip Poker from a BBS in the 80's, only to be shattered when i ran it and Sam's bits were so pixelated i couldnt get the teeniest amount of masturbation fuel from the experience. But i didn’t log back onto the BBS and have a whinge. I got on with life, went to the local newsagent, got a magazine with Sam in it, locked myself in my room with a bottle of vitamin e cream and abused my body in ways that the catholic church still hasn’t got words to condemn me with.

Which brings me to the point again, in case you still haven’t read it, for why they’re split. For people who don’t want to download 1 big file, who have slow connections and only need partial support given in that driverpack. Do you seriously believe that just because you find it inconvenient to have 3 separate packs that suddenly a call will go out to the oompa loompas at driverpacks.net to get cracking on integrating 3 into 1 because you’re a bit miffed?
No, you’re right, you are the arbiter of change, you ride a pale horse...we've been going about this the wrong way.
Choice is bad, we get it now. How could we have gotten this so badly wrong.

Hmm excessive to have to download all 3. You’re right, if they’re integrated into one, it will shrink magically.
I like where you’re going with this, no, i really do

Let me know your bank account number or your ISP account, ill get straight onto a refund for all the pain you’ve been put through.

Ridiculous Statement #6:
Your hard work has thus far wasted my time and hasn't saved me any money... as I haven't made a cent off my intern job and I haven't yet even been able to get the "hard work" to even "work" yet. It's just been a headache for the past several hours trying to piece apart the tangled and broken mess trying to make it into a coherent mass that I can get DriverPack Base to accept, then PEBuilder to build, within 700mb, along side a couple hundred megs of other combined BootCD's in one ISO.

Respectful Answer:
The refund is on the way, i swear, i personally actioned the letter to your ISP stating that they should "immediately disconnect this arseclown as he only uses the internet for demonstrating his stupidity and ignorance, oh and a love of midget scat-centric websites"

Have a panadol on me, and know ive just shed a tear for you

Ridiculous Statement #7:
Why in god's name do they even need to be updated...? All I care about is that 95% of the computers on the workbench actually come up with a optimized video driver. If the video card just came out in the past 3 or 4 months, I kinda expect it to not work properly in a CD I burned 6 months ago anyway...

Respectful Answer:
You’re right , we haven’t learned anything since your first post, this is supposed to be all about you, damn the 100,000 or so other users. We're sorry to report that you caught us at a bad time, we're all in a meeting right now and cant immediately restructure the entire project to fit your needs. We can offer you a complimentary f*ck Off while you wait though.

Ridiculous Statement #8:
You didn't "explicitly shove it under [my] nose",

Respectful Answer:
I was trying not to make you feel submissive, i figured you'd just lean forward and open your mouth


Ridiculous Statement #9:
I downloaded UBCD4Win

Respectful Answer:
f*ck no. Well, i guess you’re going to make an arse of yourself over there at some point too.
UBCD4WIN guys: Let's start a pool on how long it takes him to display his unique brand of project aims and understanding over there....



Summary:

You started out as an arrogant "male bird", spouting wild theories on how we were doing it WRONG, failing to bend the projects aims to serve you solely. Then there was a brief period where you seemed to soften as you were given some useful advice, though from my keyboard such help would not have been found. For the briefest of moments i pictured you as a young man, on a quest to discover the secrets of integration and tales of PE boot disks and other such magics, a young man trying to prove himself, removed cruelly (and some might say a tad early) from suckling at your mothers teat. A cocksure young man, railing against authority, adamant you knew a better way. We tried to tell you you are on a path to bitter heartbreak and desolation and forum ridicule. Still you started to stray again in to Fucknut country.

There was just the very hint of possible redemption about halfway through the thread, but it is often said one cannot hide ones true character forever, and so it was to be

Overflow tried to put you back on the one true path to salvation where you could be embraced by all other members of the forum and merriment could be had, along with much mead.

In the end, you’re just a very silly boy, especially taking on one of the head man like that, all out in the open and sh*t.

He has big balls, i haven’t actually seen them, but I’ve seen the shadows.

We're all now listening intently, waiting for the sound of yours dropping... and for you to get a bit of perspective on your fricking place in the grand scheme of the forum.


Troll out.

Last edited by Gollum (2009-02-11 21:03:46)

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Re: Please combine parts of A, B, & C into A... and a bug

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