• pferd5
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Topic: Best Solution for Post Install?

Hi
I'm looking for a Tool/Application which can help do the following scenario:

I want to run an application while logon (startup GPO) which auto detects the display driver and post install the driver silently (or only title with progressbar) and the display is supported without a restart.
i only need "basic" driver support - smooth browesing is the only challenge.

dream application would be like:
programm is scanning only for selected classes like display driver or chipset. than it searches in a directory for inf files and installs the detected driver.

i read about dpinst and driverforge and so on, but all this programms have there own language and it takes time to test them all. so i want to ask you experts which you would recommend?!

  • OverFlow
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

They are all good... SAD is the only one DriverPacks supports.
each if the others are supported by their own developers.
Some of them are active on DriverPacks like Kickarse with driverforge
Others like WarmSnow have been absent for some time.

If you will be needing support then start with SAD.
Our Stand Alone Drivers (SAD) platform is a script (batch file) and can be easily customized by you. 
or one of KickArse apps (he just posted a new one today 'drivergeek')

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  • pferd5
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

Thanks for first answer.
But... I tried SAD, but it's way to slow.

I also tried drivergeek, a very powerfull AutoIt, but the main part is only dpinst with normal switches
"/q /lm /sh /sa /el /se /sw" and so on...

And i also found some bugs while testing...

dpinst.exe might be the beste choice. ?! (only needed for display driver)
and is it possible to get the display adapter run without any restart issus?

* tried S3 Display Adapater and it worked with dpinst without restart.
* ati didn't ask for restart but there was no acceleration
* normal intel display drivers ask for restart and by configure some display settings windows falls back in 4 bit mode (without restart).
* intel iegd drivers don't ask for restart but by configure setting the display stays black

any idea or special section where i can look / mod to get small acceleration like the s3 display adapter without any restart?

  • OverFlow
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

all of these tools all depend on DPINST.EXE... including SAD
all of these tools will take a similar amount of time.

You may be able to increase the speed of the install if you create a SAD M1 folder structure with only CPU pack and then simply extract the graphics packs (or just the drivers you need) to the properly created folder structure. at least that way you would not have to wait for extraction and if you reduce the total number of drivers (remove the ones you know you won't use) that will also help. If you use SAD you can customize the switches wink.

whether or not a reboot is required is dependent on the driver NOT on the install method.
if you need this then you will need to find drivers that do not require a reboot... this may not be possable with some drivers / devices.

Why do you need this? just reboot and call it a day...
What are you trying to do?

DPINST is the only (viable) choice for post install of drivers in an unattended fashion.
That is why all the tools use it, including ours.

DPINST does not work with all drivers (yes there are some bugs) but unless microsoft fixes it there is nothing we can do.

re: acceleration without restart... again what are you tring to do? Why is a reboot unacceptable? are you doing an installation of some sort? if so why not include the drivers with the install?

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  • pferd5
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

OverFlow wrote:

DPINST is the only (viable) choice for post install of drivers in an unattended fashion.
That is why all the tools use it, including ours.

What's with the some Devcon methode? I read something about rescan and so on.
It's this no realy choice? - Or is there no benefit at all?

OverFlow wrote:

DPINST does not work with all drivers (yes there are some bugs) but unless microsoft fixes it there is nothing we can do.

Which class/driver is it e.g.? (ATI?)

OverFlow wrote:

re: acceleration without restart... again what are you tring to do? Why is a reboot unacceptable? are you doing an installation of some sort? if so why not include the drivers with the install?

As i wrote you we use one image for serval machines, if we install the drivers before "sealing" than they aren't installed right. or what do you exactly mean with "why not include the drivers with the install?"


many thanks so far. wink

  • OverFlow
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

RE: As i wrote
Um, no. You never mentioned sysprep or imaging. At all.

You also did not state why a reboot is out of the question.

re: manipulating drivers with devcon...
If you think dpinst is slow and ineffective then you are in for a huge surprize if you try devcon, it is much much worse.

RE Which class/driver is it e.g.? (ATI?)
I don't have a list... and i don't specifically remember (use the forums search feature)
we have had three or four drivers reported over the last two years.
We have millions of users with hundreds of millions of PCs.
the odds of you finding one of them yourself is hundreds of millions to one. wink the point is to be aware of it.

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  • pferd5
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

I wrote you an E-Mail / PM (under your Posts counter) where i wrote you some details i'm not allowed to describe much more in public.

i never said or thought that dpinst is slow. i'm only locking for the best / optimal solution to get the challenge done.
i only know about devcon, but not in detail. i wanted to bring on a small pro / con from some expert (you) here. it MAY has/had an advantage or a reasonable disadvantage. but it looks that dpinst seems the best solution at all.

the small amount of failing drivers is completly acceptable. i thought it has something to do with special classes or something like drivers which have coinstaller/drivers.

  • From: Springfield, MA, USA
  • Registered: 2007-09-21
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

Devcon has really been replaced by DPinst.exe for driver installations. However, devcon does give some nice information but you can get most of that though WMI.

I'm happy people are trying Drivergeek out. And yes for the most part it's an automated dpinst.exe installer. It's not meant to be the end all be all and some graphics and sound drivers are exceptionally bad at installing via normal means, and automatically.

Last edited by stamandster (2010-05-03 12:31:18)

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  • pferd5
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

kickarse wrote:

Devcon has really been replaced by DPinst.exe for driver installations. However, devcon does give some nice information but you can get most of that though WMI.

thx for the info. than i will fully focus on dpinst.

kickarse wrote:

I'm happy people are trying Drivergeek out. And yes for the most part it's an automated dpinst.exe installer. It's not meant to be the end all be all and some graphics and sound drivers are exceptionally bad at installing via normal means, and automatically.

I will write the error's i found, if i gonna remember my testing szenario wink. last i remeber is, that there was an inf (normal dpinst found) and your programm didn't found and showed the dpinst switches in a big gray dialogwindow. And there was referring an error in line xxxxx (i don't remember).

  • OverFlow
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

you may be able to tweak your image so that after install setup is not neccesary...

Try installing the drivers on the machine that has an issue in sysprep "audit" mode smile.
In this way the drivers will be "pre-installed" and ready to go.
you may be able to pre-install in "audit mode" all of your problem devices and save yourself some grief wink.

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  • pferd5
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

this was my very first attempt. i created a image run it on several machines with different display adapters from intel, ati, nvidia and s3. i installed the drivers and on this specific machine and all the drivers work fine. (Also switching the hdd with display adapter support was smooth).

but e.g. you deploy the image on a machine with a similar but not identical graphics card the driver has to be installed again. i pretty sure this is because of not completly matching pid and vid issues. - some have x3100 or x4500, ati 4x series and so on. (as i mentioned i also tried for intel the iegd drivers, but with no luck at all.)

an absolutly not homogeneous environment.

i'm now pretty sure that dpinst will be the best solution. i can may run it as a service or at login stage.
but there is some behaviour i don't understand.

(may i should start a new thread?!)
Please forget in this szenario that i actually don't want to restart.
I need an explanation about this (for me weird) szenario - this has not that much to do with my original question.
All drivers are WHQL signed (if this is important?!)

Short version:

|Dpinst + Plug in|
1. I run Dpinst and install some drivers (let's take something easy like a usb dongle)
2. i plug in the dongle and it become to life.
- fine | Done.

|Dpinst + Restart + Plug in|
1. I run Dpinst and install the usb dongle
2. i do a restart
3. i plug in the dongle and it pops up the new hardware found wizard. (WHY IS THIS?)
- not fine | this sucks.

|Dpinst + Restart + Plug in + Dpinst|
1. I run Dpinst and install the usb dongle
2. i do a restart
3. i plug in the dongle and it pops up the new hardware found wizard.
4. i abort the wizard
5. run Dpinst again - the secound run of dpinst with inf struktur behind is very very fast (1 sec.) and the device is installed immediately.
- may can be usefull, but not the best solution.


now my imagination would be.
1. install all drivers with dpinst in the first run. "seal" it. done.
2. and then let the driver install automaticly with the deposited drivers.
- but for now it will pop up the damn found new hardware wizard. or the device is found with an exclamation mark in device manager. (and then the very fast secound run of dpinst can fix this).

i want to avoid processes to run if they don't have to.

Last edited by pferd5 (2010-05-04 02:34:24)

  • From: Springfield, MA, USA
  • Registered: 2007-09-21
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

pferd5 wrote:

I will write the error's i found, if i gonna remember my testing szenario wink. last i remeber is, that there was an inf (normal dpinst found) and your programm didn't found and showed the dpinst switches in a big gray dialogwindow. And there was referring an error in line xxxxx (i don't remember).

Try and remember to get the path that it's screwing up on. That'll help me hone in on what is causing the issue.

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  • Registered: 2007-11-07
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

The OP may want to reconsider his need for 'secrecy' in that missing details will surely delay a solution and may in fact wholly prevent one from being developed.

  • pferd5
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

to circumscribe (hoppfully this is the right word). let's say we're using pxe boot and the image allways gets pulled out to the device. so the user has normaly no chance to save changes on the hdd.

i understand / accept that no reboot doesn't seem possible. but for now, as i described i don't understand the behaviour i about dpinst and restart (new hardware found wizard).

i'm willing to create a workaround, but this one has to be clean and nice. i personaly don't like quick and dirty solutions in/at/for work. wink

Last edited by pferd5 (2010-05-04 06:49:34)

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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

I don't see the need for secrecy, setting up systems to boot and/or reinstall via pxe is somewhat rare but it isn't secret by any means.

But whatever you think is necessary..........

  • From: Springfield, MA, USA
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

pferd5, are changes saved back to disk or is this something that's more like a iso boot that just get's stored into ram? Because if that's the case a reboot is obviously going to reset it. Perhaps you should look at boot-land.net and the 911cd.net forums for help on the solutions.

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  • OverFlow
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

He has been willing to go a little more in depth with me VIA email / PM wink. So that is not a show stopper big_smile.

RE the USB dongle...
try putting the drivers on the disk image.
Say at %SystemRoot%\MyDrivers\USB 
Then add the path to the windows registry "DevicePath"
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\DevicePath
IE update the value to  "%SystemRoot%\Inf;%SystemRoot%\MyDrivers\USB"

for a normal install with DriverPacks BASE this method is referred to as "KTD" and will work with certain drivers like a USB dongle or an external modem, monitor etc. It is likely to fail at higher level drivers like sound and graphics wink. It also has a path limit that can be exceeded if you are to greedy tongue.

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  • pferd5
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

newsposter wrote:

I don't see the need for secrecy, setting up systems to boot and/or reinstall via pxe is somewhat rare but it isn't secret by any means.

But whatever you think is necessary..........

Man, i don't know why you thump about the real project. The description that it's like PXE streaming boot is pretty close on the real projekt with one difference. Think about that PXE has no ability for individual settings, but I have the ability. But this has risks for security reasons. If i open this possibility, than the user can also do changes which i want to avoid. This all has to do with security restrictions.

Concept 0: Installing drivers on first boot with dpinst without restart.
* Again: I understand that the method like installing display drivers without reboot on system start isn't possible.
- fail

Concept 1: Install drivers on several machines to integrate them fully functional.
* This is to specific. So only the selected devices on the real machine are integrated and no other pid vid devices.
- fail

Concept 2: Installing drivers with dpinst while first start. Wait some time. SAVE. Restart. Use.
* The normal way, but because of the security restirctions. it's difficult to handle.
- ~

Concept 3: Installing drivers with dpinst. seal. | image boots up, Card should be detected. SAVE. Restart. Use.
* Doesn't work. - The driver isn't installed fine. yelllow exclamation mark and the annoying found new hardware wizard.
* Because of the security restirctions. it's difficult to handle.
- would be nice, but doesn't work well.

Concept 4: Installing drivers with dpinst. seal. | image boots up, dpinst runs again (much faster). SAVE. Restart. Use.
* The only difference to concept 2 are the preinstalled drivers which saves time while the dpinst process.
* Because of the security restirctions. it's difficult to handle.
* This is a process which runs every time once. - Process should be avoided.
- seems to work. But i this it's not a real good deal.

So now we may can try to figure out the dpinst behavior i described here and in short in my previous post?
(Pay attation to the bold keywords.)

And may you can give some recommendation you would prefer

Last edited by pferd5 (2010-05-04 12:00:17)

  • OverFlow
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

did you read my last post ? ? ?

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  • pferd5
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

OverFlow wrote:

He has been willing to go a little more in depth with me VIA email / PM wink. So that is not a show stopper big_smile.

RE the USB dongle...
try putting the drivers on the disk image.
Say at %SystemRoot%\MyDrivers\USB 
Then add the path to the windows registry "DevicePath"
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\DevicePath
IE update the value to  "%SystemRoot%\Inf;%SystemRoot%\MyDrivers\USB"

for a normal install with DriverPacks BASE this method is referred to as "KTD" and will work with certain drivers like a USB dongle or an external modem, monitor etc. It is likely to fail at higher level drivers like sound and graphics wink. It also has a path limit that can be exceeded if you are to greedy tongue.

yesterday i tried to work with
SetDevicePath.exe and SetupCopyOEMInf.exe.

SetDevicePath seemed to be a good choice.
I bundled a package: X:\Drivers
it included 2 folders with drivers and in root SetDevicePath and dpinst.
i run it both. and the behavior was the same. (you all know that SetDevicePath set's the values you mention.)
Windows seems to look only in "Installation Sources"
The path of DevicePath was not recommended/given in Hardware Wizard.
But my i did some mistake. I will proof in the next hours. (or is Windows really looking without showing the path in Hardware wizard?!)

So far thanks to all... (with small expection ^^)

  • pferd5
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

OverFlow wrote:

did you read my last post ? ? ?

No, i was writing in this time wink

Last edited by pferd5 (2010-05-04 12:17:05)

  • pferd5
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

So finaly after stressfull days with a lot business i want to answer all open questions...

DPinst:

after discussion with colleague which possibilitys we have and which one we should choose, we decided to run the dpinst every boot as a service. we think we can seal the machine (if we want) based on returncodes from dpinst. (we hope there are some - not yet researched)

to conclude:
i realised it with a service with no error logging (no messages) which runs on start up with configured xml file.
services starts and will end after 1-2 secounds. We think this is the best and most professional workaround.

New Hardware Found Wizard:
there were two seperated things i mixed unfortunatly.

the hardware wizard as it self and the dialog box which asks for found driver but searches for specific files. (like "install from disk message box".) (our windows i localised, i don't know the real wording)

1. the hardware wizard pop up / searching for files get's fixed with SetDevicePath.exe as it should. (NICE!)
2. the "searching for file/install from disk" box isn't fixed with SetDevicePath. It's only fixable with another entrie in registry (i don't remeber the right one right now) (Install Source, ServicePack Source or something in \Windows\CurrentVersion). (easy for everyone to proof)


thanks

  • Registered: 2010-10-08
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

Windows XP users must install Service Pack 1, the minimum, before attempting to install the package. Failure to do so will result in failure to support USB 2.0. Also required to install the DirectX 9.0 or higher is required to use NVMixer.

  • Registered: 2010-12-06
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

kainadolf wrote:

Windows XP users must install Service Pack 1, the minimum, before attempting to install the package. Failure to do so will result in failure to support USB 2.0. Also required to install the DirectX 9.0 or higher is required to use NVMixer.

Yes, I totally agree with your point that Windows XP users must install Service Pack 1.It will help you.

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  • Adler
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Re: Best Solution for Post Install?

where i can find WINDOWS 7 tool , and for free plz , link me

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