Topic: Linux DriverPacks

As many of you are probably aware, Microsoft thinks that they can control user's preferences, that THEY have a choice on you, and that (you) the user doesn't has a choice or a say on what you want as your own computer is concerned.

I work as a Computer Tech and I receive countless of computers in a DAILY basis from people wanting to downgrade their PC's from Windows Vista (even Windows 7) to Windows XP.  I Have been doing a great job (or course my customers has to either purchase a legit copy of XP, or already own one).  On these systems that came with Vista and how slow it was performing right off the bat, right off unpacking, when the hard drive is reformated and XP is loaded the different is noticed, XP brings these new 'slow' vista systems back to life, the boot up time to desktop is less than 15 seconds, all programs opens in an instant when with Vista it would take an eternity.

Now here is the problem (or should I say "The Microsoft Clincher").  On the latest systems that customers have been purchasing now, they come in a way that is seems an impossibility to install Windows XP.  There is no SATA drivers for XP, Driverpacks doesn't got a working SATA driver for XP for slipstreaming purposes.  Switching from SATA to IDE mode in the bios is also impossible for most manufacturer in most of these systems, but I have seen that in dell systems you can still make that change, so at least I would recommend Dell to users since they at least give some control to the owner.  As for HP/Compaq is concerned FORGET IT, as soon as they started delivering Vista only systems, they yanked out the SATA to IDE mode change in their bios, apparently they probably made an $$agreement$$ with Micro$oft to yank off that feature off their systems even though that wasn't a problem for me back then since I could easily slip stream the SATA drivers to an XP CD and install XP that way, but I mean, on the systems that are coming out now you can't even do that because there is no XP SATA drivers for them and driverpacks doesn't have one for them and you can spend hours on google searching for them and you are not going to find it.  It appears that when Windows 7 came out, that more people and most companies have been less cooperant in providing/facilitating XP drivers and Hacks to make a downgrade from Windows 7 to XP a possibility, now its an impossibility.  I understand that Vista sucked, it was sloooow, it was a pain in the a@@ for users, but Windows 7 is nothing different, its just a revamped version of Windows Vista with its crappy memory precaching feature that there is no way of disabling, Vista and 7 loads into memory all the "things" the OS thinks you are probably going to execute, so if you have a system with 4 GB or RAM vista will try to load all that 4 GB or RAM with programs and documents you have previously accessed and that's why Vista takes for ever each time you boot it.  I prefer that things get loaded into memory as I load them not the other way around (I dont need my grandma's recipe/cooking software to load into memory precached each time I turn on my system.  So Microsoft makes this design or memory management thinking they are pleasing every one and the problem is that Microsoft doesn't provide a way to change this for the user.

Anyways, these operating system has lots of problems otherwise customers wouldn't be complaining about them and my IT offices wouldn't be full of these types of request in a daily basis.  I cannot tell my customers that they are wrong and to suck it up and continue using their Windows Vista/7 and too bad if its too slow for you (although that what Microsoft appears to be illustrating to users). 

So, on Systems that I were not able to load up Windows XP I recommend Linux to my users.  So... if its not Windows XP, it will be Linux.  So lately there has been a Linux season down at my Offices and customers are liking Linux.  By my preference, I have decided to introduce Fedora Core 12 to these "Impossible Windows XP" systems, but sometimes I have to spend a long time dealing with missing drivers, configuring ndiswrapper for Wireless Adapter that doesn't have Linux drivers, and other problematic drivers out there.

So, Here is my question for DriverPacks.net  Do you guys have any plans to develop DriverPacks for Linux users (Fedora) any time soon? Because Linux is catching up with Mainstream rapidly.  People that wants to regain control from corporate greed are installing Linux on their systems.  Some hardware manufacturers but not all of them are cooperating with Linux, but for the other half, we need your support, we would like to make Linux a pleasant experience to all of our users for as much as we can.

We have installed, maybe to over 300 systems so far Linux.  Word of mouth is gong over my neighborhood about how great, fast and stable Linux is and now Users that I had installed Windows XP on their Vista only machines earlier are bringing in their computer again, this time requesting Linux.  So this is what I see, user prefer to and like to use Windows XP over Vista and 7, but they prefer Linux over Windows XP, so its now either Windows XP or Linux.

Of course there has been the challenge for us now and then that has caused a very few of my customer to return bran new printers back to Staples/Radioshack because of our failure to find Linux Driver for some Lexmark printers because Lexmark doesn't cooperate with Linux users and these users still decide to keep their printer and they just purchase another printer of the brand/model that we have confirned that works great under Linux.

So, as we can see, we are experiencing a massive high adoption of Linux within our consumer base, it looks like under this trend, linux will outgrow Windows Users.

Every month that pass by we experience a higher level of Linux converts than the ones we had on the previous months.
So the time has come to create a Linux Driver Packs, linux installation should be easy, simple, fast and seamless to these users.

Re: Linux DriverPacks

Sure we are open to having DriverPacks for linux. The real question is "do you have any volunteers to create and maintain these packs?".

No your users do not have to buy XP... MS has downgrade rights for their OS's.
In MOST cases If you have a license for Vista / Win 7 you can install XP as a substitute.
This is clearly outlined in their EULA. Please read it / them for specifics.
You may also have to read specific OEM licenses as they can differ from Retail and Site license.

http://oem.microsoft.com/script/Content … eid=553075  - Skip down to "Downgrade Rights" and you will find this...

MicroSoft wrote:

Q. What are downgrade rights and how would my customer benefit from downgrade rights?
A. Downgrade rights refer to the ability of your customers to acquire the most recent version of Microsoft software but continue to run a previous version until they are ready to upgrade. Downgrade rights are an end-user right and are documented in the product End-user license agreement.

Q. Where can I find out more information on downgrade rights?
A. Please visit http://oem.microsoft.com/downgrade for more information.

Q. Who can install the downgrade software or reinstall the original software?
A. A System Builder (when authorized by end user), or the end user. Because downgrade rights are an end user right granted in the end user license agreement (EULA), the end-user must first be able to accept the (EULA) associated with Windows Vista Business, Windows Vista Ultimate, Windows XP Professional, Windows Server 2003 or Windows Small Business Server 2003 software, so this software must be installed first before the downgrade software is installed.

Q. Where do customers get the CD/media to install the Downgrade Software?
A. End users must use a legally licensed version of the specified previous version of the Windows desktop or server operating system to install the Downgrade Software. The Downgrade Software may be from the retail, OEM/System Builder, or volume licensing channels.

Follow the link http://oem.microsoft.com/script/content … eID=552836 and a convenient chart is supplied to outline the options.

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas and please let us know if you are volunteering to help with this wink.

Have an awesome day!

Jeff

PS I belive it is only a matter of time before reference drivers are available for these chips. (That is if they are not already)

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Re: Linux DriverPacks

I agree with you to a point.  I dropped Vista like a bad habit, but I find Win7 to be much better on up-to-date hardware.
In my household I have one tower (quad-core, 8GB RAM, etc...) which I use as my primary desktop.  It runs Win7 x64 Professional and I love it.
I also have in my household, 4 notebooks.  One for my wife which runs XP Home (been re-formatted more times than I can remember).  Two for DriverPacks testing (one ancient and one only 3 yrs old).  And one Acer netbook which triple-boots XPHome/Win7/LinuxMint.  On my netbook I prefer LinuxMint since it's much faster than the other two.

Instead of Fedora, I would recommend either Ubuntu or LinuxMint (ubuntu-based) because the driver support from the community is outstanding and Mint includes many proprietary (restricted) drivers and plugins out of the box.  My netbook has the dreaded Intel GMA500 graphics chip, which isn't even designed or built by Intel at all!  It's a modified PowerVR chip nicknamed "Poulsbo" and the drivers are proprietary (NON-open source).  The only linux drivers available for that chip are built by Dell for ubuntu-based distros.  I had to resort to using someone else's BASH script to install them.  Saga & instructions here.

Although, I don't know if we'll ever see a DriverPacks for Linux since most drivers are built now as kernel modules which are specific for each distro.  Each distro maintains their own repositories for application packages and drivers.  And because of the differences in package managers (YUM, APT, etc.) the resulting packages are built completely differently (.rpm for YUM, .deb for APT, etc.).  So until all the major players in Linux can get together and settle on a common platform for package management, you'll still have to rely on each distro's own repo for updates.
Shame.

We'll have to wait for a unified package manager.

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Re: Linux DriverPacks

And Closed Source drivers, like nVidia oder ATI and so on, are distro independent (i.e. shell packages) with needings for compiling kernel modules and also needings for interaction with the user.

The final result is: DriverPacks for Linux isn't really possible, because there are many different linux distros and the basic architecture of the kernel also makes it not easy.

5

Re: Linux DriverPacks

IBM / Lenovo have the options in the BOIS to change SATA modes

A lot / most of the drivers are already available for Fedora you just have to add the extra repositories like RPM Fusion

http://rpmfusion.org/
http://rpmfusion.org/Configuration/

Also Linux has support for a huge amount of older hardware that has no Windows drivers at all

Re: Linux DriverPacks

I don't really have a very informative idea about that because I am just using SATA with my units.

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Re: Linux DriverPacks

I have tested Windows 7 on over 10 different computers so far, including an old Compaq f500 laptop with a 1.7GHz Athlon 64x2 and 512 MB RAM, which was very fast and responsive, especially once compatible drivers were installed (even though HP did not support this model for Windows 7).

Amazingly, most of the computers which ran W7 also supported Windows XP with few (if any) problems. Although most of these computers were designed for Vista (hence the Vista COA sticker attached to the computer) they performed as expected with either XP or Windows 7, provided that the correct drivers were installed and the installation was performed from scratch, on a blank, formatted NTFS partition.

As far as Windows 7 being a "revamped version of Windows Vista" I would have to disagree. Although Vista was a disaster, Windows 7 does not have the same internal problems that were present in Vista. We service over 100 computers per month, and one of the best things we can do for a customer is to offer an upgrade to W7.

Perhaps you should not bash on something until you have thoroughly and exhaustively tested it. If you had more experience to pull from, you might find that what you hate is not as bad as you think it is.

As for Linux Driverpacks.... Slackware 13 recognized every single piece of hardware on my f500 (as did XP and W7).  You can load any driver you like using modprobe, assuming it's compiled for the right architecture. If not, you could always get the source and compile it yourself. It's a great idea, maybe you could be the first to start work on it?

You understand what you know, and make up the rest as you go.

Re: Linux DriverPacks

Sorry Kenny your wrong... Win7 although 100 times better than Vista IS actually just a "revamped version of Windows Vista"
IE they are both based on the NT6 Kernel and are therefore the same engine wink. They really did just revamp Vista... big_smile
But they got it right this time tongue

I have to agree that it seems like it is a whole new platform... but it isn't. It's still NT6!

Just like Win 2k, Win XP and Win 2k3 are all NT5...
Win2k was junk too
If you are old enough you might remember when they released 2K with 10,000 known bugs...
It never really was any good either, just like vista wink. but they revamped it into XP smile.

I think we can all agree that DriverPacks for Linux would have to be version dependent...
So that means packs for each build and that makes it unrealistic. unless we get a thousand voluteers big_smile

I never had a problem with drivers with my X86 builds of Solaris on my server boxes either... but so what? not everybody runs Solaris or has an Enterprise class server, do they?

It's a Good Idea! It just is not feasible to implement

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Re: Linux DriverPacks

@OverFlow - Yes, if you look closer, 7 is just Vista with the many fixes they did not make for it.

For the whole Drivers for Linux thing. I have been using Linux for about 7 or 8 years i lost count. I even make the tests with driverpacks.net on my ubuntu system via VirtualBox. anyway, creating a driverpack for Linux would be a failure in the long run because:

1. Every 3-4 months that the kernel upgrades it includes a lot of new drivers and fixes many more.
2. Distros tipically give you the change to install with one click some propietary drivers like Nvidia, Ati, Wireless Drivers. In this case Ubuntu. Or the install by default, in this case Mint.
3. Compatibility which i have study over the course of 4 years (when i learn about the existence of http://kernelnewbies.org/ which shows the new drivers on the kernel) has grown a lot for each version of the Kernel. So basically in a years time you could have over 2K new supporting drivers on the kernel.
4. Even IF a driverpack for Linux would be made, you would have to go faster than the Distros you are aiming for and the speed of which the Kernel adds and fixes drivers.

This is not to give a bad rep of creating a linux driver. But this is to make you see that on the Linux World, things move rapidly and have been since some years ago.
Now for the good news.
There ARE some drivers that take A LOT to join the kernel. A good example is always ADSL Modem Drivers like Huawei, Ryge, Starbridge and others. This have always shown in almost all distros to have detection problems via USB. Another would be WebCams that have problems on the v4l webpage.

I think this is all i had to say wink

Re: Linux DriverPacks

Its a very nice review.I am working with the text-based Windows Recovery via Linux.I would like to fill the CD with drivers mostly Mass Storage for accessing NTFS SATA or RAID from Linux.Pretty sure that autoimage is no longer supported or in development as Roguespear has switched to Linux.

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Re: Linux DriverPacks

I can honestly say that I disagree with FranciscoNET and frankly he has far too many invalid statements for me to go into a diatribe here. What I will say is that as a "computer tech" he could have found out about drivers packs before their Linux migrations and XP would have be a viable option.

Re: Linux DriverPacks

Probably two dozed assertions in the OPs post that are not backed up by data.  No mention of research done, no mention of driver found or not found for XP.

Just an assertion that linux is somehow better.

It might be.  But not on the basis of the OP.

Re: Linux DriverPacks

I'm a moron and can't read the rules.  Therefore I am banned.