• danny
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Topic: RIS Install and method 2

Hi first of all this is a great project thanks to everyone who have used their spare time making this posible.

Now to the reason i made this topic.
I am deploying unattended installs over a ris like enverioment on a linux server, and i have always been using slipstream method 1 without any problems, but its rather slow in the text mode part because it have to copy thousands of small files and its big plus recently i also needed the repair function as obviously aint posible using method 1, so i tried to build a new image using method 2 (it should be noted that i use AutoImage to make this posible because without i can't add the text mode mass storage drivers without the instalation halts after loading the text mode drivers)
But now im getting some rather strange errors, first of all when the client machine boots up after text mode is done its opening an empty cmd.exe, the instalation completes without any problems and reboots, then on the first startup after login i get the error windows can't find the file DPsFnshr.exe. And the step where it normaly imports all the drivers doesnt start. And last but not least the hardware that were installed fine during the setup with method 1 didn't get installed.

I have searched the forum but couldn't find any answer. As i find strange i have always been able to find the answers i have needed inhere, and i cant be the only one trying todo ris installs with dp included.

I have been looking a little on it and seems like it should call the presetup.cmd where im just getting an empty console (cmd.exe) So the problem might be that the file cant be found, or the lines inside it doesn't work with ris installs, but i havent tried to change it yet, hoped one of you guys inhere had a solution, since i cant be the only one trying to use method 2 on ris installs.
I do also have a little side question, is method 2 faster to install compared to method 1, or is the copy process just moved from text mode install to gui mode install ?

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

last question first...
M1 all files are copied uncompressed to the destination during txtmode. (2gig transfer)
M2 (normal not RIS) the files are extracted during Presetup Environment (PE is after the first reboot)
- Both methods have the files in place before Setup.exe runs... _ M1 raw copy in text mode _ M2 extraction in PE.
I am not positive about RogueSpears method here but that CMD window should be extracting the M2 packs.
My belief is they should have been copied localy during the txtmode portion as compressed files.
If i am remembering/guessing correctly then there is probably a folder I386\$OEM$\$1\OEM\[DriverPacks.files] that should be copied to the local hdd as SystemRoot\OEM\ and extracted to SystemRoot\D\ just before setup.exe is called (extracted when that CMD window is displayed) M2 would be faster (moving a 2gig source wouth thousands of files, takes longer than moving a 350 meg source with a dozen large archives. wink)


In as much as RogueSpear is a genius there has not been much call for support for RIS here in our forum smile So although i am delighted that you did take the time to search this is one of the few times that you may not find much here to help. Is RS's forum still up... I belive he is either getting (or did get) out of windows support entirely... SAD, I know. He does still frequesnt here and may drop us a lifeline!...

Thanks for your kind words and for taking the time to attempt to help yourself. Since you are running RIS off a Linux box i am quite certain that you exhausted every other avenue before posting. This is something Linux guys seem to have in common, they will try everything before asking for help wink.

Jeff

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  • danny
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Re: RIS Install and method 2

Thanks for your fast answer.

First to reply on the speed answer : Ok intresting, when i think about it i might have been wrong, the idea i had was that method 1 only need to copy the files, lots of small files but only copy, where method 2 needs to both copy the files and the unpack them in the start of the gui mode setup, but i had forgot that method 1 not only need to copy the files, but also expand the cabinet files. So method 2 should be faster.

About the copy process when i try to use method 2 the archived driver packs do get copied but they end up inside %systemdrive%\$win.nt$\$OEM$\$1 i checked that with the empty cmd.exe that opened up.

I played a little arround with it, and it seemed like putting this in the .sif file my ris server apply to the instalation helped :

OemPreinstall=Yes

This works fine for my unattended installs, but i am also working on a attended install with the repair option enabled, so there must be some diffrense i have to find out what it is smile

Another thing ive noticed is that after i implented the driverpacks there have come one more restart into the install process, it comes after you have chosen automatic updates or not, regisrtration with microsoft and username for the default account is there a reason for this. I somehow suspect thats because that part normaly is skipped since RIS is for domain controlers, but that was the whole reason im running it from a linux box, that way im not required to use domain controlers.
And last but not least, if i dont use the KTD function the soundcard does not get installed, seems verry strange.

EDIT:
It should be noted that i have both a "windows default" unsupported wireless netcard and soundcard in the machine, with method 1 both worked fine without KTD with method 2 only the wireless netcard will.
Seems like there is no diffrense in the dir structure from pre oem install to non pre oem install, so i might just end up editing the presetup.cmd script, will post more info about it inhere when its tested.

EDIT2: Editing presetup.cmd didn't help, seems like it doesn't run at all wonder what that empty cmd.exe is good for... Maybe setup cant find presetup.cmd any ideas is welcome smile

Last edited by danny (2009-03-09 10:42:58)

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

the answer is simple...
DriverPacks with RIS must have OemPreinstall=Yes or it will not work...

If you don't have OemPreinstall=Yes then the $OEM$ folders are not used (copied).

--- OEM folders depends on OemPreinstall  ---

and the driverpacks will then not be copied to the target machine... and then don't get installed.

Repair or $OEM$ folders - not both - one or the other...

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  • danny
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Re: RIS Install and method 2

The folders is copied over without OemPreinstall, and method 1 works fine without OemPreInstall, so thats not the case.
But without OemPreinstall the packages will not be extracted using method 2.
The diffrense is without OemPreinstall the $OEM$ folder is deleted after reboot nr2 in the instalation process.

Tracked back what the diffrense was since last time where i made the working method 1 install, and the only diffrense was that i used an older version of db_base so i tried to make a working method 2 install using the old dp_base 8.0.5 and it worked fine over ris, so you guys must have changed something since then that breaks ris installs.

Last edited by danny (2009-03-10 04:07:31)

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

Sorry cant help you... RIS is not supported.
bye bye now...

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  • danny
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Re: RIS Install and method 2

Well its solved, just used dp_base 8.0.5 method 2, and rewrote the presetup.cmd script.
Thanks anyway, great thing you guys have going here, you should do more to support RIS though, its not that hard, if i can make it work, you sure can also smile

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

If it were supported... Then i am sure we could...
Neither RIS nor Attended installs are supported (Repair is an attended install)

Saying we broke somthing that is not supported is not encoraging though and in fact is quite the opposite.
So saying we broke something that is not supported on multiple levels is... well... antagonistic...

Providing no details about your process, (which neither helps us or someone else who may stumble on this thread) and being antagonistict at the same time is really not condusive to leading us to support of it,  nor helpful to someone else who may wish to do the same thing. (your posts have been anything but helpful either to us or anyone else)

contradicting MS documentation is also not helpful... 
- IE proper $OEM$ folder fucntions depend on it being and OEM installation. wink

So you were able to force a Repair to work for RIS, two unsupported issues, Yay,
and you have shared the 'how to make it work' results with no one, Boo...

We can't create problems with unsupported platforms. {think about it} To accuse us of such is short sighted.

I equate this to you complaining that DriverPacks BASE used to make toast and now we have broken the toast feature.
- But since you have been able to make the toast feature work again so should we! - {HUH}
We do not now nor have we ever supported the use of DriverPacks BASE to make toast... toast is not supported (still) sorry...
now waffles... that we can talk about wink

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

Ummmmm...waffles...

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

yeah... I like waffles. Waffles are never off topic as far as im concerned wink

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  • danny
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Re: RIS Install and method 2

RIS installs will copy anything you put in the source dir (the same dir as your i386 folder is in on the RIS server) to your local harddisk during text mode, cause it does not have acces to your ris server during most of the gui mode setup, so oem install is not nessesary with RIS.

That being said it should be pretty easy to make DP support RIS just a matter of editing the presetup.cmd to fit the dir structure of the oem folder with the driverpacks files inside (in fact you can call it what you want doesn't need to be called OEM with ris)

If i try a clean XP source with DP method 2 and my edited presetup.cmd everything works great.

However if i try to add DP method 2 and the same presetup.cmd into my nlite slipstreamed source with ie7 wmp11 and all hotfixes (as works fine alone) some strange errors arrive, for example it wont install soundcards properly in some machines, it install some MS WMNI or something like that driver, as shows up with a ! in the device manager and there is no sound on the machine, after some reboots it works though without having messed arround with it. Thats clearly a nlite/hotfix caused bug, so dont take it like im saying its your fault.

Im a linux guy, you should know i then support sharing my work with others, however im would prefer to wait untill i have made it work with hotfixes included also.

But here it is for those who just want DP included in their RIS image without anything else hotfixes etc.
I wont suggest to use it with nlite slipstreamed sources, it causes those strange errors, but when i fix that i will ofcause post it inhere aswell.

SET DPPATH=%SYSTEMDRIVE%\$win_nt$.~ls\DriverPacks

%DPPATH%\bin\un7zip.exe %DPPATH%\DP*.7z %SystemDrive%\
%DPPATH%\bin\un7zip.exe %DPPATH%\bin\*.7z %SystemDrive%\

COPY /Y %DPPATH%\bin\DPsFnshr.ini %SystemDrive%\
COPY /Y %DPPATH%\*.ins %SystemDrive%\

%DPPATH%\bin\DevPath.exe %SystemDrive%\D
START %DPPATH%\bin\WatchDSP.EXE

This is setted up to work with a folder called DriverPacks instead of OEM.

Last but not least please dont take it personaly, its not like i said it was your fault the new version doesn't work with ris, the only reason i included it was that you then could backtrack what was changed since then and maybe find the reason.

Last edited by danny (2009-03-11 19:48:34)

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

did you run driverpacks after nLite? (it is very important that DriverPacks is the last step...)

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  • danny
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Re: RIS Install and method 2

Yes just like your guide says, DriverPacks last.

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

Sometimes the order in which you add IE can have adverse effects...

Did you try running teh SAD tool after the install... that may clean up the strays...

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  • danny
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Re: RIS Install and method 2

In nlite i import all the updates (downloaded with Windows Updates Downloader) sort em by name so the oldest KB is first, then i put wmp11 in top and IE7 as nr2, that should be ok? With just that everything works ok, but no drivers for soundcard and wlan, then i put DriverPacks on the image, and no sound on the first couple of boots.
If i take a clean copy of the same windows instalation but without hotfixes and put DriverPacks on it the sound works fine even before the DriverPacks finisher starts (in fact that made a lot of annoying beeps when the driver signing things popup so had to add the mute.exe to GuiRunOnce also.

No as faar as i understand the SAD tool is made to import the drivers to an already installed machine, and my problem comes long before that, even if i disable the finisher (as should be the same as that SAD tool) i still get no sound.

I will try it again today and see if i can get some logs out of it, screenshots etc.

Last edited by danny (2009-03-12 23:03:53)

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

the driversigning things normaly only pop up when KTD is enabled...
we should not need KTD, and it may cause issues too.

Sad can be run at any time. what is the HWID for the soundcard that is at issue

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  • danny
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Re: RIS Install and method 2

Hwid : PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_24C5&SUBSYS_00391025&REV_03\3&61AAA01&0&FD : Crystal WDM AC'97 Driver for ICH4

Screenshot of the error
http://93.160.185.14:230/error1.JPG
No KTD was installed.
All other drivers works fine.
And if i reboot a few times the soundcard starts working all by itself.

Last edited by danny (2009-03-15 02:02:17)

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

I couldn't help but notice that the modem was not installed either. some modems require sound drivers too.

perhaps you could fix this by including the 3rd party DriverPack for modems... I am assuming that modem is in the pack, if it is not you could easily create a 3rd party DriverPack of your own, given your displayed skill level i think it would be NP for you. If I am right it is the sound chip on the modem that is conflicting somehow.

I am going to suggest if that does not work that you could simply try
calling the DP_Inst_Tool during your process and see how it works out.
you might be surprized. wink

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  • danny
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Re: RIS Install and method 2

Hm well i only get that error when im using a ris image with hotfixes slipstreamed in by nlite and drivers by DP with Autoimage (in that order)
When i take a clean ris image directly from a cd and then apply DP only it works fine, sound is on when its rebooted after gui mode setup.
And there that pci modem aint installed either. It should also be noted that the error is reproduceable on ALL the computers i have tested it on, both laptops and stationary ones, with and without onboard/pci modem.
I will try it though, but i dont have any high hopes for it hehe.

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

Found the reason why it happend, it must have something todo with either WMP11 IE7 or some of the other extra updates i had slipstreamed in.
When i make the full version with all updates from WUD that nlite can handle the machine is doing lots of work on the first boot after install, and if i wait 10 minutes that work is done and the sound comes on.
Tried to make a version today with only the ones from the WUD Critical Updates folder. Minus IE7-WindowsXP-* and msxml4-*
It doesn't do all that work on the first boot, and the sound works on first boot, i have no idea what update pack it is yet though, but must be either ie7 or wmp11

Last edited by danny (2009-03-16 19:42:12)

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

Thanks for keeping us in the loop!

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  • danny
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Re: RIS Install and method 2

Tried installing it with all updates integrated on a much faster machine today, instead of my old slow test computers, and it worked like a charm, no massive work after it was installed, and sound was on from the first boot.
It might be because the old ones i tested it on cant handle all those updates within the instalation and has to do some of them on the first boot.

Ive made a fix for ris and ris like installs so the unpacking (presetup) works (requires the driverpacks 7z files, and bin folder is inside a folder called DriverPacks in your ris image root) It will also make KTD an option with 2 links on the desktop after installing. 1 for removing the unpacked files for ktd, and one for instaling kts, and remove the instalation dirs when done.

Extract this file into your i386 folder overwriting the old one.
http://www.fileqube.com/file/Kobxtm181301
Extract these files into your /OEM/bin dir, the bin subdir DP_BASE creates inside the oem folder.
http://www.fileqube.com/file/BLZdqiA181303
Add this to your sif file instead of DPfnshr.exe
[GUIRunOnce]
    command83="%SystemDrive%\fixdps.cmd"

EDIT: Just tried my theory out by setting it to install a very big package (.NET Framework 3.0 runtimes) during the windows instalation with the svcpack function, and that resulted in the same sound error on my fast pc.

Last edited by danny (2009-03-18 03:19:30)

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

Just so users know this is to be used if you want to enable the repair feature.

a normal RIS install works just fine out of the box with roguespears autoimage.

These files overcome the problems created by removing the Unattended section of the winnt.sif...

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

This has nothing todo with the repair function, like i have said before you do not need oempreinstall with ris installs, it will automatic copy the intire content of your ris image dir (i386 OEM or what ever dirs you have inside it) into %SYSTEMDRIVE%\$win_nt$.~ls\ whereever oempreinstall is on or not.
This is because during most of the gui mode setup it doesn't have acces to the install source like it would if it was a cd install.

And no the autoimage tool only fixes one thing, when slipstreaming text mode storage drivers with DB_Base only the instalation will halt before its even started. Using autoimage will fix that.
Autoimage also renames the OEM folder to $OEM$/$1 but it does not edit the presetup.cmd batch to fit any of those changes, the presetup script is made to find 7z files on the install cd's OEM dir or on your %SYSTEMDRIVE% in case its a oempreinstall and unpack then into %SYSTEMDRIVE%, for ris installs you need to make it find 7z files inside %SYSTEMDRIVE%\$win_nt$.~ls\$OEM$\$1

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Re: RIS Install and method 2

No...

if the unattended section is missing then the oem folder is not copied from %SYSTEMDRIVE%\$win_nt$.~ls\$OEM$\$1 to %SYSTEMDRIVE% (because this only happens for an unattended / OEM install) otherwise it is. and driverpacks will work as intended - AutoImage works. you need to copy it from $win_nt$.~ls because you altered teh winnt.sif so it is no longer an unattended install and must therefore manually force it to work, IE use the $win_nt$.~ls source instead of useing the final destination of   $OEM$\$1 which is %SYSTEMDRIVE% in a normal unattended install.

so \$OEM$\$1\OEM will be moved to %SystemDrive%\OEM and work normaly if you are doing an OEM / unattended install

If you enable the repair feature you disable the $OEM$ folders one or the other - unless someone uses adapts your method.

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