• Registered: 2008-10-19
  • Posts: 35

Topic: How finisher removes its temps?'cause it grows the MFT zone very much

Hi
first i want to thank you for your great job. i really am a big fan !

after that i have a question, i don't know if you've heard about the MFT zone for NTFS drives but i've been in a big trouble lately because of this issue.
The MFT zone is a space in your NTFS drive that grows a bit whenever you delete a file. It depends more on the number of files than the size of them.
It doesn't grow very much when you delete by windows commands, but i don't know why the DPSFNshr (the cleanup method) causes this zone become very huge (as big as the temps it removes, about 2GB) !!!
I tested it on different PCs and got the same results.
i'm not sure but i think if i remove them with a simple command then the MFT zone won't become that big.
the problem is i don't know what the DPSFNshr does !

will you please check it and let me know if i'm right about the cleanup method ?

  • Helmi
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Re: How finisher removes its temps?'cause it grows the MFT zone very much

Never heard of the term "MFT zone" before, but are you by any chance referring to the System Restore Points and/or the Shadow Copy service of Windows?

Does the System Volume Information folder also grow by that size?

The reason the files may be tagged as vital system files worth such an "in-house" backup is because they are drivers.

You can limit the SRPs either manually or using nLite to a specific percentage of the partition's total space.
Obviously, with current drive sizes, at 1%, 2GB does not sound too unlikely.

Old entries will, of course, be overwritten once the quota has been hit so you shouldn't worry too much.
That 1% of net space loss can come in quite handy when the system suddenly stops working properly after having updated a driver or installed an app.
Saved my ass quite a lot of time and is definitely faster than rolling out an image again.

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  • OverFlow
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Re: How finisher removes its temps?'cause it grows the MFT zone very much

the MFT is the equivalent of the old File Allocation Tables (FAT)...
Master File Table (MFT) can be thought of as the table of contents for the file system smile
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS

the finisher is used to install control panels and other Setup.exe programs that certain programs require.
My favorite example of this is the ATI Control panel...
It also cleans up all of the uneeded files as you already know.
it uses the autoit commands dirRemove() and fileDelete() to do so, these commands are not different than the DOS commands RD and DEL. and have the same "fit, form and feel" (they are almost identical, in fact they may actually be just a wrapper for them)

I think it is important to note here that as your Disc fills up the MFT space will be de-allocated for use.
The MFT is "reserved" which is totaly different than allocated (or used). if the space is needed it will be relinquished wink The MFT space will be "given back" (all except what is absolutely neccessary) IF it is needed tongue

Helmi is right you need not concern yourself with this, it is not a problem.

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  • Registered: 2008-10-19
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Re: How finisher removes its temps?'cause it grows the MFT zone very much

Helmi i disable system restore through setup so it cannot be SRP temps. the system volume information folder is 0 bytes after windows loads.

OverFlow your right the MFT space should be given back when its needed but it actually doesn't because of some reasons i still don't understand ! (i tested it)

but could you do me a favor ? please tell me in what phase of setup do you remove the decompressed drivers ?
i disabled the finisher but the drivers still got removed.

thanks

Last edited by lordsepid (2009-02-21 23:55:28)

  • Helmi
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Re: How finisher removes its temps?'cause it grows the MFT zone very much

Oh, thanks Jeff but I didn't mean I don't know what MTF is (of course I do! smile).
I rather meant, I never heard of that term in conjunction with such an issue - hence my possible alternative explanation of the "lost space".

I'm also unsure how you could possibly see the size of it anyway (at least with standard Windows tools).
As you pointed out correctly, the space is not allocated, hence it should not substract from the overall amount of free space (unlike the SRP and SVI).


EDIT:
Oh well, that's kinda strange then, lordsepid .

I'm pretty sure you did make certain it's not files in the recycle bin taking up the space smile

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  • OverFlow
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Re: How finisher removes its temps?'cause it grows the MFT zone very much

they are removed by the finisher...
if the finisher does not run then they are not deleted...

you tested it... hmm - i don't think so...

IE you filled the drive to it's "full capacity" with files?

perhaps you should investigate ADS as a possable leak...

many defrag programs will show the MFT, like O&O defrag for example wink

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  • Registered: 2008-10-19
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Re: How finisher removes its temps?'cause it grows the MFT zone very much

ok, maybe i make a mistake somewhere in my project.
i've made an unattended windows xp that runs with winnt32.exe inside the current windows.
in the RunOnceEx phase of setup i install some softwares and make some changes to the registry. DPSFNshr is the first program that runs in this phase and after that i remove the remaining temp folders of the old windows. so many files are deleted with this method.

after the windows loads i compare the size of all datas (including hidden and system files and folders) in windows drive with the "used space" of that drive (in drive properties). here i see a huge difference between these two sizes. maybe i'm makin a mistake but have you tried it before ?
i mean integrating driverpacks into windows and after installation compare these sizes. will you test it and let me know if i'm right about it ?

thanks

  • OverFlow
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Re: How finisher removes its temps?'cause it grows the MFT zone very much

Sorry no can do...

winnt32 installs are not supported... You are welcome to keep us up to date on your results...

PS how do you get the DriverPacks to work with winnt32?
(it will not work unless you did something manualy to force it to work)
can you describe your process in more detail...

PS let me repeat the only way to see if the MFT space is properly returned is to FILL the drive to it's FULL CAPACITY with files!
IE until free space shows as like 10 meg wink In Example: If it is a 400gig drive copy 100 DVD's to it wink


Moved to "other" forum since this is not a DriverPacks BASE related issue, and is unsupported.

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  • Registered: 2008-10-19
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Re: How finisher removes its temps?'cause it grows the MFT zone very much

OverFlow wrote:

PS how do you get the DriverPacks to work with winnt32?
(it will not work unless you did something manualy to force it to work)
can you describe your process in more detail...

I don't force anything related to driverpacks to work with winnt32.exe
i integrate the driverpacks into windows with DPS_Base and without any change.
i haven't tested the normal way of using winnt32.exe but in my method of using winnt32, it works perfectly.
i've forced winnt32.exe to install completely unattended and clean.

anyway, i'm still working on the first question of mine. if you had any other idea please don't hesitate to post it here.
i will check this page several times a day.

thanks

  • OverFlow
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Re: How finisher removes its temps?'cause it grows the MFT zone very much

without being able to reproduce your process myself
(you seem reluctant to reveal your steps to duplcate this issue - i have asked)

there is not much chance I nor anyone else will be able to help...

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  • Registered: 2009-07-18
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Re: How finisher removes its temps?'cause it grows the MFT zone very much

my question seems to be somehow related to this thread.

Does the driverpacks finisher remove also unneeded drivers by the system or are all the useless drivers integrated into system, taking up space?

Last edited by kaitsevaim (2009-07-20 06:41:02)

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Re: How finisher removes its temps?'cause it grows the MFT zone very much

All the drivers are expanded from disc-based installs to %systemdrive%\D\.
Once the installed system uses/installs the drivers it needs, DriverPacks Finisher then deletes the entire %systemdrive%\D\ directory and everything in it.
Unless of course you enable KTD (Keep The Drivers), which we do NOT recommend.

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