• From: Azores
  • Registered: 2007-05-03
  • Posts: 34

Topic: [request] API interaction with WinBuilder Projects

Hi,

I've been reading throught the forum posts to understand how to use the internal API from DriverPack and read that we should contact the author to add proper support so I hope this way I can place my request and also hear the feedback from other members.

For those not familiar with PE based boot disks - WinBuilder is a free program dedicated to create boot disks with special focus on XP/2003 and Vista based PE environments. We've been development our projects for over a year, researching, publishing new projects and new ways to create slim and truly efficient (in overall ISO size vs feature) boot disks available to everyone - it is developed in mind to either new users just starting to experiment on this area or those seeking customized boot disks with very specific features.

http://www.boot-land.net/forums/WinBuilder-t5.html


I first tested a driver pack when some members (Lodovik and Nate) have created a script which included SATA drivers from DriverPacks a few months ago - also take this chance to personally thank this community because it was a critical script to later acess my laptop drive when the OS started with strange BSOD's and needed to rescue my documents.

You can find this talk here:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=839

Our boot-land.net community is strictly guided by a non-profitable policy and winbuilder with respective projects is included on this spirit. Those who follow our talks on regular basis notice that we tend to discuss or propose new methods to do things and the results up to this date have been truly excellent, automating results which were very doubted to be possible before - a bit like the laughs gaven to Bâshrat about driver packs.

Above everything else - we have a lot of fun trying out new boot methods and learning from each others.

Look on our projects here:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/project-PicoXP-t76.html
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/project … -t727.html
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/Actual- … t1648.html
http://vistape.boot-land.net/eng/
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/MobileOS-t1218.html



Also noticed ubcd4win's effort and integration of bartPE based projects - and althought this method is compatible with our own PE projects on XP based patforms, it won't give the much needed flexibility and possibility to automate when applied under very custom conditions or different projects like Vista based targets for example.

There have been some developments to add DriverPacks on VistaPE which work, but it would be awesome to be able to apply the API directly from DPs_BASE.exe - especially since we can also colaborate ourselves and help this community adding more drivers and providing feedback.

We also use AutoIT - it's included on our default set of tools so we could use AutoIt - but wb itself has also a dedicated script language which we could take advantage to further customize the needed features from DriverPacks and include it as a script on these projects.

If possible I would like to include driver pack base on our common tools folder which also includes other popular tools for general use like 7zip, autoit, upx and qemu - this way would also allow users to use it in standalone mode and integrate drivers on their install CD's.



Bâshrat: Do we have your permission and help (without asking to take much of your time) to use the internal API from DriverPacks?



In exchange I offer my own time and colaboration to help you with whatever needed - either testing, providing beta testing feedback or promoting DriverPacks (not a dificult task because I already think that driverpacks is a truly valuable project)


Thank you for your time devoted to driver packs and all the effort done by the community to keep it growing and updated.


Everyone is welcome to visit our discussion forums where you can get your own impression about our overall developments and topics.

You can find us on http://boot-land.net/forums and download WinBuilder (latest beta) here: http://boot-land.net/winbuilder/WinBuilder.zip

No instalation needed, just unpack the executable and get the projects you wish to try out using the internal download center - instructions are also included inside, hope you like it..

smile

Nuno Brito's Website

  • From: Hasselt, Belgium
  • Registered: 2006-05-26
  • Posts: 2,609

Re: [request] API interaction with WinBuilder Projects

Obviously the answer is yes. More developers on the BASE can only be good. Especially that you're already familiar with AutoIt (and its sometimes odd pros and cons) is a plus.

I personally don't have much time to guide you through, but I've thought already a lot to OverFlow, who's the one who did virtually all the coding for the BartPE support. The documentation on the BASE's code is pretty bad in the sense that there's no general walkthrough. But I'm sure OverFlow and I can provide you with that. The code itself is properly documented.

One last thing though: what exactly are you proposing? I don't see how Jeff's coding isn't flexible enough. A LOT has changed since December/January, the time you created that script (extract DP MassStorage and see that .ini to see what I mean). All those strings you parse manually actually CANNOT be parsed manually, because we have to take a multitude of work-arounds into account. That's why this project's progress has always been so slow: there's no way to automate the entire process...

I think you merely need to copy/paste Jeff's code and make some changes to it to suit your needs.

I see that you want to support "VistaPE". I suppose that'd be a PE based on a normal Vista, so NOT the official WinPE 2. That would imply that you would like to work on Vista support, which is GREAT. I've already received a basic script that slipstreams drivers into Vista. To my understanding, OverFlow would like to work on this too. So that is: a starting base + a bunch of devvers.... that should equate to a nice solution smile

I'll get you an SVN account, but you'll have to work on a separate branch, for obvious reasons. Please mail me (admin at driverpacks dot net) for those details.

I'd say: welcome aboard smile

Founder of DriverPacks.net — wimleers.com

Wim Leers's Website

  • OverFlow
  • DriverPacks Administrator & BASE Developer
  • Offline
  • From: Cincinnati
  • Registered: 2006-12-02
  • Posts: 6,730

Re: [request] API interaction with WinBuilder Projects

You can count on me.  I'll help anyway can.

I want to do vista but I think it's still a little to raw to invest a great deal of time on.
I have been waiting for SP1 before taking the plunge.

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  • From: Azores
  • Registered: 2007-05-03
  • Posts: 34

Re: [request] API interaction with WinBuilder Projects

First of all I will start by helping writing some documentation and properly getting all my steps published (hope you can correct me whenever needed).

Don't worry about automating this process - that's our personal challenge with wb for some time now and we already have our own "tricks" and gathered experience.. wink

The overall idea is not creating a branched development but rather use the packs directly - this way we can all focus and join forces on a single development and keep things flexible enough for all future projects and teams that appear as years pass.

Just wanted your permission to also use and include DPs_BASE.exe on the default set of tools distributed with wb (for LiveXP web server at least) and help you further improve this application.

A good idea would be adding a liveXP boot disk project with support for drivers provided by B.T.S and also allow slipstreaming these drivers on the install disk as needed and re-create back the ISO with all these changes (all these steps were already automated as a one click process) - not the same as bartPE because our intention is to completely customize and understand all steps to make integration truly efficient - not just applied on generic PE environments but also on other projects like mobileOS.

This method is also valid for WinPE 2.0 since the drivers seem to be quite compatible.

What do you think?


------------------------------------------------


Funny enough that VistaPE is actually based on the official WinPE 2.0 (distributed with Vista) - the only difference is that MS tries to cover some features under the hood and limit what it can actually do since this is actually a very flexible system.

WinPE is meant to replace the traditional msdos diskette from the perspective of MS:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/wind … 05120.aspx


We already had quite some experience with XP/2003 PE environments - but this time MS has taken the right step and released Winpe 2.0 to the public.

NightMan is the author of VistaPE - the original winpe 2.0 images are unpacked, edited and then repacked with the added changes.

These modifications include adding explorer as shell and a lot of tools used on daily maintenance tasks.

The best part is that this project can use either Vista DVD or the WAIK - it is not targeted to modify these install images, but perhaps within some time we can try to help your team getting ahead on this task.


Overflow, thanks for offering your time!

Vista migth be raw but a good challenge is what keep things interesting!

Will be posting my doubts soon, thanks! smile

Nuno Brito's Website

  • OverFlow
  • DriverPacks Administrator & BASE Developer
  • Offline
  • From: Cincinnati
  • Registered: 2006-12-02
  • Posts: 6,730

Re: [request] API interaction with WinBuilder Projects

Bâshrat the Sneaky reference to the branch was an offer to let you add your functionality to the base itself.

by making a separate branch it would allow for simultanious development without preventing releases from happening if one or the other team was not ready.

if you wish to provide your stand-alone application that simply uses the packs themselves looks like you have full support of Bâshrat the Sneaky and the team.

PS. You might have sold BartPE short. It certainly can be fully customized and automated.
UBCD4Win is an excellent example of that.

Last edited by OverFlow (2007-05-12 14:03:47)

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  • From: Azores
  • Registered: 2007-05-03
  • Posts: 34

Re: [request] API interaction with WinBuilder Projects

I will start learning and understanding as much as possible - where can I start reading?


BartPE was where I first developed some tools to tweak boot disks:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=15488

I know it quite well and am very familiar with all the inner limitations and proposed workarounds but this just wasn't enough - try using bartPE and then use a wb liveXP project to see the difference.

Things should be done in a simple fashion without limits and that's our goal.

UBCD4Win is also one of my favourite projects and their work is orientated for rescue boot disks / maintenance tasks while our projects are dedicated to challenges about different ways to create boot disks and adding new features.

smile

Nuno Brito's Website

  • -I-
  • ewwhhh
  • Offline
  • From: NL
  • Registered: 2006-08-31
  • Posts: 36

Re: [request] API interaction with WinBuilder Projects

apart from UBCD being way beyond illigal wink,   
with any PE builder that  makes you have to use your own windows cdrom,
it could (or maybe even should) be possible to add more drivers. the problem at this point IS though that adding these (uncompressed) drivers to your boot  would almost completely kill all the space on your BootROM (dvd),   

So overall,  these 'cd' driverpacks might just be  a real pain. 
i wonder what would happen with a programm like PE builder  when  Storage drivers are cab'ed and then included in  txtsetup.sif   -  and the pe-builder is  given That (instead of a virgin cdrom) as its  source..

disclaimer:
Any posts written by me or on my behalf comes strictly with no implicit warenty unless clearly stated otherwise.
Following any advise i might give, is done soly at one's own risk.
Never give away person-identifiable information about yourself unless you absolutely know for sure you can trust the person you give it to...
  • From: Azores
  • Registered: 2007-05-03
  • Posts: 34

Re: [request] API interaction with WinBuilder Projects

There seems to be a small confusion here: UCDB4Win is not illegal, there were some legal issues regarding the initial project name which was "Windows Ultimate Boot Disk" - microsoft contacted the project maintainer and this name was changed to "UBCD4Win" in order to remove the word "Windows" to avoid confusing people as a windows product. This was on 2004, read here: http://ubcd4win.com/msdocuments.htm
l
Bart's PE Builder itself is quite legal as well, look here: http://nu2.nu/pebuilder/#licensing


Please test WinBuilder and you will see that it has indeed a liveXP project which creates a PE build - but WinBuilder itself is not designed exclusively as a PE Builder since it is used to create bootable disks for Freedos, ReactOS and mobileOS (full sized unnatended instalation of XP/2003).

We use several sources to ouput very different results and you are not "forced" in any way to use your licensed Windows copy - you can even download a trial MS Windows 2003 from the microsoft which grants you a license for 180 days of testing: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2 … truct.mspx

And VistaPE is based on Windows PE 2.0 which is a completely free "tool" to use from microsoft and also comes bundled inside the Vista DVD to install the OS (Vista OS license should not be mixed with WinPE 2.0 license). If you don't have a Vista OS, then you can download the WAIK (which contains WinPE2.0) from here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta … laylang=en


Drivers packs are already added on VistaPE, look on the Vista discussion thread on this forum where I mention the standalone program we've been using.

Why use a CD? - You can use a DVD with 4Gb worth of data inside or even your USB pendisk which is preferable for portability sake and forget size limitations..

All projects create an ISO and run it straight away in qemu (a pc emulator) so that you can see the results and transfer them to removable media when you wish.


MS itself is also changing their restrictive attitude toward these sort of developments and WinPE 2.0 is a very good example of this effort - we've been discussing this sort of things for years now.

smile

Nuno Brito's Website

  • -I-
  • ewwhhh
  • Offline
  • From: NL
  • Registered: 2006-08-31
  • Posts: 36

Re: [request] API interaction with WinBuilder Projects

well i dont want to go into a debate about  what windows source people should use, (or not use),  but the last time i check ubcd had some tools like cdburning apps and other that where hard to get a licence for...

*its been a long time since i checked, an i usualy have to look at it from a  'professional ' (comercial) point of view ....

and to be honnest - i probably wasn't thinkin about how my prev post would sound like, something i didn't meen to say...

The thing is that i wanted to mention that using bartpe instead would have you not install plugins that you dont have a licence for...

well to be honnest -
iv been working with live cd's for a long time now (mostly based on damn smal linux in the early days...  and i always tell people, -  carring cdroms, with you al day is a .... b@#tch -  now day's  i usualy try to fit it all intal a 1gb iso limit... 

this leaves you 2 choices.   the first is a wallet size 3inc mini dvd ...  the second is a 1gb usb stick..   

this 1gb is a rather fun size limitation... 
from the point of a windows xp perspective  and the multiboot way (in the way that 3in1 cdroms are created)... this should leave you about 600mb of space for driverpacks,  and aditional software.   

Do note that i find to have a verry usefull reason for  choosing mini dvd's over full size dvds...
Its not just because you can, or  because they are cheaper than fullsize dvd's
(in fact they are actually more expencive),   the main reason for using mini dvd is that its small, and fits into you pocket more easy.. 
But also because a smaller cd-case is less likely to break and scratch the dvd...
(by making it more transportable, you also make it safer against damage)...

all this just as a side-note,

Last edited by -I- (2007-05-20 21:34:00)

disclaimer:
Any posts written by me or on my behalf comes strictly with no implicit warenty unless clearly stated otherwise.
Following any advise i might give, is done soly at one's own risk.
Never give away person-identifiable information about yourself unless you absolutely know for sure you can trust the person you give it to...
  • OverFlow
  • DriverPacks Administrator & BASE Developer
  • Offline
  • From: Cincinnati
  • Registered: 2006-12-02
  • Posts: 6,730

Re: [request] API interaction with WinBuilder Projects

-I- wrote:

apart from UBCD being way beyond illigal wink,   
with any PE builder that  makes you have to use your own windows cdrom,
it could (or maybe even should) be possible to add more drivers. the problem at this point IS though that adding these (uncompressed) drivers to your boot  would almost completely kill all the space on your BootROM (dvd),   

So overall,  these 'cd' driverpacks might just be  a real pain. 
i wonder what would happen with a programm like PE builder  when  Storage drivers are cab'ed and then included in  txtsetup.sif   -  and the pe-builder is  given That (instead of a virgin cdrom) as its  source..

Apparently you have not been following the progress of driverpacks and BartPE we do use cabbed drivers and add them to txtsetup.sif.

and it isn't a pain at all. Try it youll like it!

Slipstreaming drivers into the source fails because the new drivers are not on the "list of files to copy" from the source that PEBuilder uses. and wont end up on the destination. that is why we create a plugin.

Last edited by OverFlow (2007-05-21 21:17:27)

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  • Registered: 2006-08-10
  • Posts: 77

Re: [request] API interaction with WinBuilder Projects

-I- wrote:

apart from UBCD being way beyond illigal wink,   
with any PE builder that  makes you have to use your own windows cdrom,
it could (or maybe even should) be possible to add more drivers. the problem at this point IS though that adding these (uncompressed) drivers to your boot  would almost completely kill all the space on your BootROM (dvd),   

So overall,  these 'cd' driverpacks might just be  a real pain. 
i wonder what would happen with a programm like PE builder  when  Storage drivers are cab'ed and then included in  txtsetup.sif   -  and the pe-builder is  given That (instead of a virgin cdrom) as its  source..

I think I may be able to clear this up.

There is a WAREZ version called "Ultimate Boot Disk" which is at around version 6.x or something like that. This is distributed illegaly by JusThink and his merry little friends.

UBCD4WIN or "The Ultimate Boot CD for Windows" is completely legal which is why you have to build it yourself and not simply download in iso file.

The former is full of WAREZ and our distribution is 100% freeware or licensed for us to distribute.

The work done on pebuilder driverpack integration has been a joint project between our team and the driverpacks team, where Overflow & Myself have taken the blunt of the work.

You need to take a fresh look at both projects as we are already using a driver method like you said we should have done, so it's safe to say you have not looked in the right place for a long time.

www.ubcd4win.com/forum

Will take you to the legal (Freeware) version which includes a fully licensed OEM VERSION of pebuilder, paid for by the people who use our project to simplify the building process.

Last edited by hilander999 (2007-05-25 14:10:50)