TechDud wrote:

By "default driver", do you mean "DriverPacks_B_1107\D\G\I5  {DriverVer=02/07/2006,6.14.10.4497}"?

yes

TechDud wrote:

Should we therefore reexamine what a "known good power supply" is?

No, I mean, tested, confirmed to work in multiple machines with no *noticed* problems for extended periods of time ;-P

TechDud wrote:

I am also assuming the AC supplying the P/S is clean.  Passive surge suppressors (aka MOV's) have only a limited life-span and are therefore known by me, at least, as "consumables".  Consider Active Surge Suppression for your main equipment.

ugh... lets never discuss this again (until i can afford some *active* suppressors)

TechDud wrote:

PPS:  Just use the diode-test function on the meter to read the caps with the negative lead on a ground-plane & the positive lead on the chipset cap.  You might be astonished to see how many failed mobos, mostly with graphics chipsets, exhibit this type of reading (or not).  Was it an nV chipset, BTW?  If you find one, you may have a candidate for your "Easy-Bake" oven! big_smile

PPPS:  If i haven't said this before, congratulations on the successful laptop recovery! smile

thanks and *Easy-Bake* oven - ROTFLMAO

I'll test some of my junk mobo's tomorrow, not sure if it's an NV

TechDud wrote:

As a follow-up to this topic, were you able to note the VideoBIOS revision, or more-importantly, which driver worked properly for that chipset?

v 3240 as reported by the intel graphics app

and it appeared that the default drivers did work with it.. the problem was as the drivers were copied to the HDD, the files were corrupted

TechDud wrote:

PS:  Now that you're more familiar with TVS diodes, what does the presence of a failed TVS generally say about the power it was supplied?

It recieved a spike above the voltage of the TVS for an *extended* amount of time (not sure the amount of time, but if the TVS is blown, it definately received a spike?? would a short on the other side drawing too much power blow the TVS? or would it only blow if the PSU provided a spike?)

anyhow, the fan spins a few turns and it powers off (the PSU is going into overcurrent protect mode I believe, and yes it occurs with known good PSU's also)

TechDud wrote:

PPS:  If all else fails on that mobo, especially if it's a no-POST, do a bench diode-check of the SMD capacitors upon it, you may find a power rail with low readings.  One side of a cap will be ground.


a diode check on the SMD caps?? please provide a little more info.. I should note I don't have a cap meter.. just working with my somewhat decent (only)multimeter... and I didn't know you could diode check a cap.. am I understanding you correctly?

and the CCFL on the dell went flawlessly!!! well, there is a little bit of a bright spot on the bottom right corner, but not enough to be concerned with.. It took about 20 mins to disassemble, solder, and install the new backlight.. the hardest part was when I put a screw in the wrong hole, and it didn't want to back out smile I have one very happy customer, and saved a "vintage" computer that is still able to keep up. Dell really built a tank with that laptop, I am very surprised with the performance for such an old laptop.

And believe me i'm still learning something(usually 3 or 4 things) new everyday. I love what I do, it's like i'm still in school everyday(but I never learned this much in school). Most importantly I find I can do *anything* I get determined to do.. My newest project is a solder reflow toaster oven I am about to build for making my own boards and repairing ps3/xbox/laptop GPU's..

and after reading that info about the TVS diodes, I believe I have an emachines MOBO that may have a blown TVS on it, going to try to hunt that down and hopefully save a MOBO that was in the "solder practice/parts" box

TechDud wrote:

See page 86 for an example of "popcorning".
I find a 24hr bake at 80°C most helpful to avoid this phenomenon.

Low-melt solder for removal intrigues me.  http://www.zeph.com/lowmelt.htm
(Note:  I have no ties present or past to that company; this is not a recommendation, only information.)

Have you seen any of the videos about chipquik? http://www.chipquik.com/

I wish I would have read that about 2 weeks ago... I popcorned a xbox GPU trying to do a reflow... lol

I read that sometimes, you can use the stick of a q-tip to rub the popcorned top layer back down and it will actually relaminate, if the damage isn't too bad....(don't know how bad mine is yet...)

That article about the diode theory is GREAT.. I always wondered why metal would act as the ground... I didn't know that solid's couldn't hold a positive charge... they can only "carry" it because of the way that the bonds occur.. It's a hard read, but very very informative...

I'm not an EE, and i've been learning about electronics and circuits on my own(making damn good progress though!!), but in the past year I have learned how to build circuits, use CPU's(and the busses they use), print my own PCB's, and repair stuff that I didn't *EVER* think could be fixed. I love learning new stuff!!!

BTW thank you sooo much for the great thread we've been dragging out here ;-P I think we are a little off topic, but it is one of the best threads i've taken part in, in a long time

TechDud wrote:

A quick TVS diode-test with the digital meter yields 0.555V (- lead on striped-end - forward polarity) and only briefly measurable with reverse-polarity.
The other one is 0.676V forward & 1.60V with reverse-polarity.  Neither are shorted or open.

see here http://hddscan.com/doc/HDD_from_inside.html

Another protection device called Transient Voltage Suppression diode or TVS diode. It protects PCB from power surges from external power supply. When TVS diode detects power surge it fries itself and creates short circuit between power connector and ground.

another article http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Barracuda- … m-p/118908

4/ What are the symptoms of a shorted TVS diode?

A shorted TVS diode that is connected directly across a +12V or +5V supply rail, without any series connected protection devices (eg fuse, polyswitch, inductor, zero-ohm resistor), will cause the external power supply (PSU) to go into overcurrent protection mode and shut down.

The usual symptom for a PC PSU is a single kick of the fan after pressing the on/off button, followed by immediate shutdown.

A typical symptom for an external hard drive may be a rapidly flashing LED.

If the drive has additional protection devices, then these may go open circuit as a consequence of diode failure. One example would be an open fuse, usually 2 amp or 4 amp. Other examples are burnt inductors in some Seagate models, and open zero-ohm resistors in Western Digital models. In such cases the drive will not shut down the PSU, but it will not spin up or be detected by BIOS.

5/ How do I test a TVS diode?

A TVS diode can be tested on the diode test range of a digital multimeter. It will have a low resistance in the forward direction, and a high resistance in the reverse direction.

However, an in-circuit test will be complicated by the fact that the diode is connected directly across a particular supply rail. This means that the meter will be measuring the resistance of everything connected to that supply. In reality, all we are interested in is whether the diode is shorted or not, so I would suggest that the 200 ohms range could be used in preference to the diode test. On this range the meter outputs a lower test current at a lower test voltage, which means that its reading is less likely to be affected by nearby devices (ie PN junctions).

If the meter reads close to 0.0 ohms, then the diode is most probably bad. There could be a shorted component elsewhere on the PCB, but you won't know this until you eliminate the most likely suspect.

Hope it helps!!

EDIT:: don't know if this applies to your PCB or not
http://forum.hddguru.com/noise-related- … t7986.html

PLEASE DON'T DO WHAT THIS GUY DID!!!! http://forum.hddguru.com/wd5000aaks-00t … 15491.html

and as for the laptop, the battery held up at idle (maybe doing updates) for about an hour... I'm not concerned with it, and the owner isn't either, I think he is just more concerned about having a portable get-me-on-the net machine.. I offered to do the backlight for free as a "this is now personal" issue with the laptop.(i know, i'm going to regret that one lol).

I quoted him for a inverter, and it has taken a while for the parts(and the inverter didn't do it!!), and at this point I am aiming for a happy customer.

too bad that most people aren't as nice and don't care as much as I do... I would like to believe that some day it will pay off!

TechDud wrote:

Thank you for taking time to respond!  This forum sees so little feedback.

A board swap is pretty-much pointless without a controller like the PC-3000 or similar.
My drive had only slight discoloration of the Head-assembly pads & ground-pads.  An eraser cleaned them up, including the reverse-side, without risking the protective coating with 2000-grit (and an isopropyl 'rinse').  In my case, the hynix buffer chip seems discolored yet cleaned up well.  Any advise for jumper settings before power-up?  I think 5-6 limits the interface to SATA-I.  For now, i'm leave no jumpers set & ditching the foamy for testing.

A quick TVS diode-test with the digital meter yields 0.555V (- lead on striped-end - forward polarity) and only briefly measurable with reverse-polarity.
The other one is 0.676V forward & 1.60V with reverse-polarity.  Neither are shorted or open.

Don't know about the jumpers.., haven't had to dig that far into it yet, but I would have left them factory set. as for the diodes, unless you know what they are and can look up the specs, your guess is as good as mine, maybe you can find some schematics somewhere(or ask on that hddguru's forum i mentioned).  But I would leave the foam... It is either to prevent shorts or act as a heat sink or both.. my understanding is that those chips get WWWAAAYYY too hot, and that is usually what causes the problems with corrosion or the chip failing, from what I read, when the PCB board is at fault, it is usually due to that chip failing.. if you have some liquid noclean flux, you could flux everything up and either stick in a oven to reflow, or use a hot air rework station, but that is a whole other thread...(and may not fix anything, and could make things worse!!!)..

go check out that thread, I read a post about someone having trouble, and one of the guys helped him trouble shoot with a youtube video, and they eventually fixed it!!!, I know a little about a lot of stuff, but they know a lot more about HDD behaviors and symptoms  than I do.. I suspect I just got lucky with what my problem was...(well, I wouldn't quit until there was no more options... hehe )

I wish I could claim I was more of a HDD expert, but I'm not..(yet..) But I still hope my couple posts help someone!!

TechDud wrote:

PCB repair?  I have a WD5000AAKS that has similar, if not the same, issue.  Should i be looking at the TVS Diodes?

I would probably suspect the Marvel chip due to what I have read and seen... on all of my drives, the thermal insulation foam appears burnt around the chip.. even when the chip is in a different location, furthermore, I see evidence of excessive heat, on one side of the ram chip, and the plates and pins where the PCB connects to the drive housing.

Repair may be a poor choice of words.. Cleaning would be better. however, I had 4 ( a WD5000AAJS, WD7500AAKS, a WD500AAKS, and (not sure model, but same line 1.0TB in size)) that all suffered from the 5-click, then spindown problem
It turned out to be corroded contacts where the PCB connects to the drive housing.

and a PCB replacement is almost pointless, there is either an 8-pin rom(or other flash device) or onboard storage on the marvel chip that stores drive specific data that is used to read/write to the disk... A board swap will fix the bad circuit, but the onboard controller REQUIRES the data from the old chip to access the drive. In order to swap the PCB if that is the problem, you need to either swap the flash/proccessor chip or get a data recovery company to adapt the new rom to your old data...

^ if the PCB even helps... I got lucky with my 4 drives ;-P

after you check the contacts CHECK OUT THIS FORUM!!!! (http://forum.hddguru.com)
In my case (4x different WDxxxxAAxS drives) the PCB had bad contact points to the drive...

I gently cleaned the contact pins and pads with a dry dish sponge(and GENTLY with the tip of my leatherman utility knife), and then cleaned them up more with 99% isopropyl alcohol and q-tips, and made sure it was dry before i reassembled. I was very careful to align and center the mounting tabs, and screw holes before tightening the screws.

BIG PIX!!!!
http://threeriverscomputerservice.com/pics/WDHDD/WD5000AAJS-pcb-front.jpg

http://threeriverscomputerservice.com/pics/WDHDD/WD5000AAJS-foam.jpg

http://threeriverscomputerservice.com/pics/WDHDD/WD5000AAJS-mounting.jpg

Well, the followup; after the new hdd, and a failed 7 installation; the XP with driverpacks installed without a problem. guess it was due to the corrupt harddrive that I was having problems with missing files.. As for the backlight, I am already committed, and am awaiting the CCFL in the mail. I'll post a followup and let you know how it went.

I gotta run right now, just successfully completed a PCB repair on a WD 500gb sata drive ;-P !!!! Went from a click-click-click to a successful spin-up!!!! smile

@techdud, I will check the CCFL as far as I can with my multimeter, since I am going to attempt a backlight replacement on this machine. I may PM you(does dp have a PM function?), to ask more specifically what you mean about a few things, as for the version, you totally lost me. I will check the bios version, i don't know where to start to check the vidbios version, but please provide me with any directions, and I will check. I might be good at what I do, but I still have a lot to learn!!!

This may be resolved, when I do a reinstall in a day or two, with a good HDD in the system... I will probably find out tomorrow.  Oh, is there a vista/7 driver compatible with this chipset?? I have several Dells, that are not 7 compatible due to lack of display(or sound) drivers... If there is a vista/7 driver, how do I get vista/7 to pick it up, as device mgmr->update driver never finds any compatible drivers... even with xp I have noticed that some drivers, cannot be found in the same fashion, but when DP is slipstreamed, it will pick up the drivers...????  I wish I had enough time to sit here and figure this out, but I do a lot of reinstallls and don't have time to sit here and "play".

I love this forum already ;-P

So, can a failing CCFL cause the inverters to fail? is this a permanent issue, or will the inverters work properly if I plug them into a good CCFL? I have 3 of these dell *proprietary* inverters, and they all hum really loud, and cut out after about 3 seconds. the last one worked in the dell for about 12 hours, now it just cuts out after 3 seconds, and I am about to order a new one.. I don't want to put it in if the CCFL is just going to cause it to burn out.

I have noticed that for the most part, all of my LCD panels are interchangable, but I need one that fits this machine, I think I got 2 toshiba tecra M2's I could scavage they look like they might be the right size..

This whole "is it the CCFL or is it the inverter" issue is driving me nuts... this is not the first one that I am having this issue with

First thought was the DC in,so I used two different adapters ;-P
about 10 minutes after my last post, the HDD failed, and 10 minutes after that, a second LCD inverter failed....
after replacing both the HDD, and the another inverter, I am chalking it all up to old multiple failing components. and possibly dirty CDROM drive.

I suspect, that the install may have worked, had the HDD not began a catastrophic failure. HDD tested good before the install, then It appears, that the heads began impacting the disc about 30 minutes after beginning. With the new disc, I have had ABSOLUTELY no weird behavior, short of the LCD inverter going.

Almost scrapped the machine as a bad MOBO, but it became personal lol. It turns out that the HDD just had a really quick and almost unnoticed failure. It would have went unnoticed, had I not heard a PING come from the disc, and decided to test it again.

ahh the joys of "Vintage" hardware. lol

and for what it's worth I'm not a user either.. If I have a bad laptop GPU, I can reflow it, or just lift it from the board and fix the problem ;-P

LOL, I run a PC repair shop, and I work with what brings me money... moneys tight, and my flat rate reinstall price brings me all sorts of xp, vista, and 7 compatible hardware.. I thought about memory and the dirty DVD eye. I didn't want to open it up and look for bad caps on a laptop :-(. (however I suspect, it is likely either fault dvd-firmware, fault video hard or bad caps, I did notice some other funky behaviors...., I will be running a stress test diagnostic shortly before returning to the customer)... thank you for the input, I am really leaning towards out of date firmware also. Upon completion of the install, the driverpack driver(with the one file from the dell release) was a newer version than the dell version, causing a BSOD. Upon starting and safe mode and "downgrading" the driver, everything appears to function properly.. so far..

On my first reinstall attempt I encountered two seperate corruption of file issues(after succesfully testing the hardrive twice with my notebook-usb adapter, and two seperate memtests of 7-passes each), along with some dvd-read errors after cleaning the drive.

grrr, I think I feel a no machines older than 5 years policy in the works

at any rate, I will do a stability test, and at that point I have done WAY more than I was obligated to do.

I had the driver packs slip streamed into a AIO install disc.. setup hung.. kept looking for ialm??5.dll (think ??=bb) in \dp\etc\I5\

there was a matching filename I believe, but it would fail everytime.. Downloaded the driver from dell.com
http://www.dell.com/support/drivers/us/en/19

it was the "Extreme graphics 855 GM" for a dell inspiron 1150

If I knew how to help out with this more, I would, If anyone wants to point me in the right direction, I do a LOT of reinstalls
and would be glad to help out, so that my set(and everyone else's) contains all the drivers we need ;-P