Topic: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

I get these 2 system error messages:

Event ID:    50

Description:
{Delayed Write Failed} Windows was unable to save all the data for the file . The data has been lost. This error may be caused by a failure of your computer hardware or network connection. Please try to save this file elsewhere.

Event ID:    57

Description:
The system failed to flush data to the transaction log. Corruption may occur.

The device this error points to is a external HDD.

1) Is the HDD near its end?
2) Is the external HDD casing's chip causing the problem?

thank you in advance for your time to help ^^

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

Sounds like a failing hard drive to me.

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

hmaster10 wrote:

1) Is the HDD near its end?

Quite possible.
Urgent suggestion:
* Do not use the HDD for the time being!
* Backup all important data if you have not already (obviously, you will have to use the HDD for this...).
* Download http://ultimatebootcd.com/download.html
* Burn ISO to CD
* Remove the HDD from its case (since it's obviously an external one), connect it to an internat port (ATA/SATA)
* Boot from the new CD and select HDD scan utils.
* Scan (extensively) the HDD using the manufacturer's tool (it's important not to use the tool of a different manuf.)

2) Is the external HDD casing's chip causing the problem?

While plausible, if this is the case, it is likely the chip in question is running too hot, which would also mean the case itself is improperly cooled, which in turn could mean the HDD itself is (also) damaged.

If the above scan does not turn up anything, then it could indeed be the bridge chip of the case.

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

I see, thanks, I'll try those steps.

The external is a laptop type HDD. Is it possible to connect it to a Desktop PC?

Last edited by hmaster10 (2007-06-12 16:54:36)

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

hmaster10 wrote:

The external is a laptop type HDD. Is it possible to connect it to a Desktop PC?

You'd need a special adapter for that.  You should connect it to an actual notebook for testing.

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

mr_smartepants wrote:
hmaster10 wrote:

The external is a laptop type HDD. Is it possible to connect it to a Desktop PC?

You'd need a special adapter for that.  You should connect it to an actual notebook for testing.

Yes, you do need that adapter, but it isn't that "special" (it's a normed one, nothing proprietary or anything).
The protocols are the same for an ATA drive so the adapter only converts the electrical signals and does not include a logical unit.
As for SATA, I may be wrong, but I believe desktop and notebook systems (ie 3.5" and 2.5" drives) actually use the same connector because that one is already pretty slim as opposed to the "big ass" IDE connector.

In any case, when working a lot woth notebooks, having such an apadter ready is pretty convenient, IMO.
It doesn't cost much either, so it's not wasted money wink

As to the second point, of course it does not or rather should not matter on which system you do the testing.
As long as direct HW access is granted (which the USB or whatever bridge chip of the external case will prevent), those low-level scans will work.

While recommended to use a standard IDE controller, most scan tools nowadays support various RAID or SATA controllers, too (just like the DPMS wink), so you can even use one of these.
Also, it should not matter, but it's better to do this is hooking up the drive as a sole device on the IDE channel (so as a master without a slave).
With SATA, this limitation is obviously void.

Good luck in testing and here's hoping it will turn out well for you!
smile

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

I see... thanks again.

I'll post back after I get an adapter for the HDD. (it's not SATA)

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

Ok, I just gotten that "adapter".

I tried using the http://ultimatebootcd.com/download.html in USB boot mode.

Test:
HDD: Fujitshu 60GB PATA (Laptop HDD)

Using the Fujitshi HDD Diagnostic Tool resulted to not finding the HDD (its the only HDD connected, the BIOS was able to detect the HDD).

Using the Seagate HDD Diagnostic Tool resulted to a message "HDD FAILS pretest SMART check!!" Does it mean the HDD is broken?

Using the Seagate HDD Diagnostic Tool resulted to a message "HDD have been overtemp - 100" Does it mean the HDD is very hot?

Using the Seagate HDD Diagnostic Tool resulted to a pass test. Both Short (DST) & Long test.

Last edited by hmaster10 (2007-06-18 03:11:41)

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

Using the Fujitshi HDD Diagnostic Tool resulted to not finding the HDD (its the only HDD connected, the BIOS was able to detect the HDD).

This is NOT a good sign.  When a vendor's utility won't even recognize it's own device...bad news.  IIRC, Fujitsu haven't updated their utility in a while.

Using the Seagate HDD Diagnostic Tool resulted to a message "HDD FAILS pretest SMART check!!" Does it mean the HDD is broken?

Not necessarily, using another vendor's utility may or may not report accurately.  Although, failing a SMART check does mean the drive is on it's way out.

Using the Seagate HDD Diagnostic Tool resulted to a message "HDD have been overtemp - 100" Does it mean the HDD is very hot?

If this is true, the drive is dead or dying.  Heat will kill a HDD faster than anything else (short of dropping it off a building.)

Using the Seagate HDD Diagnostic Tool resulted to a pass test. Both Short (DST) & Long test.

Well, well, well.  A silver lining to the cloud.

Personally, I would back up all the data worth saving off the drive.  Then sell it to an unlucky sucker.  (just kidding). smile

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

hi

SMART has to be enabled in the BIOS of the machine it is hooked up to.
This is worth looking into, for chances are it is turned off.

The answer was 42?
Kind regards, Jaak.

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

jtdoom wrote:

SMART has to be enabled in the BIOS of the machine it is hooked up to.
This is worth looking into, for chances are it is turned off.

I have turned SMART on in the BIOS.

Helmi wrote:

How many test loops did you run with Fujitsu's tool?

The tool won't even recognize the HDD...

BTW, I didn't say that the HDD is fine after using the Seagate Tool, I just posted the result of which tool happens to detect the HDD. Even the Maxtor's Diagnostic Tool failed to detect any HDD connected.

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

Hi again
you said you ran that ultimatebootCD in USB mode.

I would use A cheap IDE converter. I really think you get more reliable results than over USB.
such a IDE converter is in my tools-drawer, and one can use it again, and again, and again.

USB interfaces can go bust (has an inteface chip) whereas an IDE converter is just what Helmi said wide-ass to tight-ass
hehehe..
One could call it standard IDE-plug to Slim-IDE-plug adapter or molex-adapter, but the point is that no EXTRA eletronics play part in that connection.
I like Helmi's description better smile

an example
http://www.addonics.com/products/io/aaedt18ide25.asp
one can find cheaper, and local shops may have them in stock.

hmmm, first example was a poor example
this is similar to what I use
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6812119020

Last edited by jtdoom (2007-06-18 11:30:15)

The answer was 42?
Kind regards, Jaak.

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

jtdoom wrote:

Hi again
you said you ran that ultimatebootCD in USB mode.

Sorry for the misleading information.

What I mean by that is, instead of burning the ISO to a CD and boot from there, I booted from the USB with the ultimatebootCD in it.

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

Gnarf, tried to delete my apparent double-post, now bot hare gone, so here it is again for refrerence...

hmaster10 wrote:

Test:
HDD: Fujitshu 60GB PATA (Laptop HDD)

Using the Seagate HDD Diagnostic Tool resulted to a message "HDD FAILS pretest SMART check!!" Does it mean the HDD is broken?

Not necessarily.
Heed what the other two posters told you, though.

jtdoom wrote:

hi

SMART has to be enabled in the BIOS of the machine it is hooked up to.
This is worth looking into, for chances are it is turned off.

That and to really profit from it (while-run checks) you'd have to install some software on your OS that will monitor the HDD whenever it runs.

Using the Seagate HDD Diagnostic Tool resulted to a message "HDD have been overtemp - 100" Does it mean the HDD is very hot?

No.
With these tests, it is imparative you only use the manufacturer's tools and not those of a different one (which can suck if you man. only offers a very minimal or bad tool hmm I'm actually buying HDDs sort of based on how well the tools provided are...).
The problem is that SMART values are saved in hex code ranging from 0x00 to 0xFF, or 0 to 255 in decade numbers.
The temperature hence isn't give in a "real" value (say so and so many °C/°F) but rather this code.
In your case, it may just happen to be of the value of 100.
This does NOT translate to 100°C or 100°F (the latter being the more probable, though).
The tool has to look it up in a chart how much represents what temperature.
If it's not the manufacturer's tool, how will it know this? It doesn't.

Using Segate's tool to check a system with also an IBM inside the tool reported a temp. of 255°C for me once (SMART readout happens for all drives so I couldn't cancel that or such).
Hilarious but absolutely impossible considering the other drive's max temp was some 40°C and current at ~30°C...

Using the Seagate HDD Diagnostic Tool resulted to a pass test. Both Short (DST) & Long test.

The problem is, even with the manufacturer's tool, just because it passed doesn't necessarily mean it's ok.
However, should it not pass, it's almost 100% sure it has some defect.


How many test loops did you run with Fujitsu's tool?
I'd recommend at least 10, maybe even leave it on overnight.
Of course backup all data before running any such tests, more so on stress testing.
The point is to actually provoke some error message.
Most manufacturers will require you to provide such an error code before you can send the drive in (assuming you still have warranty left).
Even if not it's better to verify the drive will not break down on heavy use NOW rather than having it break down some months down the road when you do not expect it.
HDDs are comparatively cheap but a data loss is hard to pay!

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

And now it's back there twice again!
Argh, I'm starting to hate this board!
>8(

hmaster10 wrote:
jtdoom wrote:

SMART has to be enabled in the BIOS of the machine it is hooked up to.
This is worth looking into, for chances are it is turned off.

I have turned SMART on in the BIOS.

Helmi wrote:

How many test loops did you run with Fujitsu's tool?

The tool won't even recognize the HDD...

Dang, I misread your post...
Is there only this one Fujitsu tool present?
IDK that off the top of my head, but some manufacturers have several tools represented in UBCD (eg Samsung) and I already had to go through all of them until I had success.
Also check Fujitsu's website for a possibly updated version (though UBCD happens to be quite up-to-date).

This is either some controller issue (tool incompatible with it) or the thing is really broken, but electronically and not mechanically as they ususally are.
The real strange thing is that it turns up in the BIOS and in the third-party tool.

BTW, I didn't say that the HDD is fine after using the Seagate Tool, I just posted the result of which tool happens to detect the HDD. Even the Maxtor's Diagnostic Tool failed to detect any HDD connected.

I get you now.

Maybe try IMB/Hitachi's for a chance, I had some success in the past scanning non-IBM disks with it (for defective sectors at least).

Re: [Question] System Errors pertaining to HDD

Helmi wrote:

Is there only this one Fujitsu tool present?

Yup, there is only one fujitsu tool included in UBCD.

Helmi wrote:

Maybe try IMB/Hitachi's for a chance, I had some success in the past scanning non-IBM disks with it (for defective sectors at least).

Using the "Advanced Test", resulted to no error. (Was run only once)

Currently waiting for the result of the "Exercise Test". (I have set it to run for about 10x)

Updates:
- Exercise Test Result (10x)

Error Code = 0x70 > Defective Device

- Exercise Test Result (10x) [Second Attempt]

Error Code = 0x70 > Defective Device

Last edited by hmaster10 (2007-06-24 14:49:09)