Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

Can i do anything to help make this pack compatible with SAD2?  Remember, this pack is at least half-meant for display auto-detection issues. hmm
140+MB compressed to 33MB, still have some folders to clean, update.  Is there an upper-limit on the number of files within a pack?

Last edited by TechDud (2011-08-19 15:41:36)

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

no limit on files in a pack... # of folders can become an issue as it adds to path length.

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Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

Do European LCD's use a refresh-rate of 59Hz, instead of 60Hz like here in North America?

Is there anything that i can use as an 'editable flag' to indicate a preference for KTD, or KTD-except-the-DP_Displays pack?
KTD seems unnecessary & perhaps counter-productive especially if the main use is for when a display devices cannot be autodetected. hmm
KTD for testing might have some logic, yet with 12000+ files...

This has me thinking that any USB-Display devices (i have some drivers for "DisplayLink USB Devices") should be in another pack; what would you suggest?

I've also gathered some Built-in WebCam drivers; i will collect them for inclusion in DP_WebCam later.

Last edited by TechDud (2011-08-21 20:11:32)

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

KTD is not and never was what it was intended to be... I always recomend against it's use.

I should disable it in BASE but i tend to not eliminate features, even if they are undesirable.
Everything has a proper place and useage. Perhaps i should make it a command line option and remove it from the GUI.

SAD is what makes us happy.

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Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

yes, indeed BE glad, get SAD2! lol

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

TechDud wrote:

Do European LCD's use a refresh-rate of 59Hz, instead of 60Hz like here in North America?

Nope.
If anything, we'd need 50 Hz to sync them to the electric grid (which is what had been done to the PAL TV standard).

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

The reason i ask is because i've seen a lot of LG drivers with 59Hz set as an overriding main refresh rate.  This has me concerned since this isn't an obvious multiple of 25/50Hz as used for PAL/hydro.
If it can be confirmed that 59Hz refresh is an error, i'd seriously like to delete them since i have newer inf's.

i've downloaded lcd drivers from europe, yet i haven't seen any with 50Hz as the specific refresh rate.  A quick search reveals no drivers with 50Hz as a refresh rate for common resolutions.  I've been wondering, lately, how the OEM's solved compatibility between the various world standards.

I need to ensure that obvious refresh rate errors can be minimized, i have never tried 'tweaking' the refresh on an lcd, i'm assuming a black screen would result (unsupported).  My hope is that it wouldn't cause permanent damage.  It would be good for this pack to be a community-service rather than 'electronic-roulette'!

Monitor drivers don't load in 'Safe Mode', do they?

I appreciate all comments. cool

Last edited by TechDud (2011-08-23 09:30:56)

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

Well a monitor driver driver does load in safemode... standard VGA tongue

Custom drivers obviously don't load @ safemode.

Probably nowadays few monitors rely on AC input for their output freq. AC is converted to 12 VDC and then digitally pulse modulated for the refresh. So it would not matter what the input frequency was. however 60 hz refresh would look much better with 50hz lighting. much as 70hz refresh looks much better with 60hz lighting. I always avoid 60hz refresh like the plague. i have "fixed" a lot of display complaints with this simple tweak. Say NO to 60hz. (in the US). Heterodyning is BAD.

I doubt damage would occur on solid state devices. Prolly get an "out of range" error displayed as a worst  case.

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Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

Ah, good to get confirmation, i can safely delete the 59Hz drivers from LG.
... standard VGA would be necessary, since communication over DDC via I2C is likely unavailable.  I will test I2C communication just to make certain of my 'facts', to minimize risk to the end-users. (not much i can do for 'stupid', though! lol I'm my own worst victim sometimes - 'kit gloves' with other peoples goods)

I see that many modern LCD's with low response-times support refresh rates up to around 75Hz.  I like the higher refresh rates, since bandwidth increases (if i remember right).  Aren't LED monitors less susceptible?
Do you see 'heterodyning' over DVI/HDMI, or just VGA?  Are you talking about interference on an LCD over VGA, especially with a moire-pattern?

Dr. Bill Wattenburg (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ … Wattenburg) says that many MegaWatts per year could be saved, if the hydro utilities simply delivered electricity at 115Vac, instead of the 121Vac normally used.  (He also says that if the federal governments mandated all new 'federal' vehicles for government tender to be dual-fuel natural gas, our economies would improve faster, as North America has more proven natural gas reserves than Saudi Arabia has oil)  His radio show is a must-listen event for me, personally.

Eizo Test has been helpful to me http://www.eizo.de/pool/files/de/Eizo_Monitortest.zip, as has 'LCD adj' http://www.eizo.com/data/downloads/soft … DJ110C.zip, and 'ScreenAdj' http://www.eizo.com/data/downloads/soft … /SA100.zip.  AOC's iMenu http://www.aocmonitorap.com/drivers/i-M … up.exe.zip has allowed DDC/CI access to my Samsung LCD for simple on-the-fly adjustments.  I will see if it will support another manufacturer's 'Auto-Rotate' feature, soon.  I here through the grape vine that there is a later version of iMenu somewhere, possibly version 3.9.0.0, yet it so far eludes me.  Use any of these 'utes' at your own risk, i have not been able to extensively test them.

It would seem that my previous estimate of 'half-way' may have been overly optimistic.  I think i would prefer to release (as a RC) a well-researched, well-rounded, set of packs for xp & vista-7, rather than an endless line of 'updates'.  Hopefully this would minimize the risks to 'the adventurous'.  Here's the current changelog --> http://forum.driverpacks.net/profile.php?id=14671 big_smile

Last edited by TechDud (2011-08-23 16:22:12)

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

it's not based on the medium of the monitor it is all in your head.

think of the lighting in your room as a strobe light, and the monitor as a strobe light.
If they are both flashing at close to or at the same rate it aggravates your brain.

ever watched a video of a monitor? did you see the black wave move up / down the monitor. In real time your brain fills in this blank info for you, and makes you tired.

if the video camera and the monitor are at different refresh rates the "wave" almost disapears. In real time your brain does not have to fill in the "blanks", you are less fatigued.

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Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

Incandescent or LED lighting should eliminate that effect (or is it an affect?).

Is anyone out there brave enough to try AOC's iMenu on their DDC/CI compliant LCD monitor to verify function with another brand?  USE AT YOUR OWN RISK http://www.aocmonitorap.com/drivers/i-M … up.exe.zip

It's so nice to be able to adjust my contrast & brightness on-the-fly with my mouse! big_smile

Last edited by TechDud (2011-08-24 19:19:38)

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

Having refresh rate clocks being set by the AC rate is a bad idea since even with modern power grids, there is still some deviation in the nominal 50 Hz for Europe and 60 Hz for the US. Even if it's just ± 2 Hz there may be undesired side-effects.
Of course, with LCDs, you no longer have that pulsed cathode ray but the CCFLs, even on DC, (cf. to CFLs on AC used for lin-room lightning) are oscillating (you can see this very "neatly" when they are broken and start flickering, just like your old 60 Hz CRT wink). This is a form of PWM used to dim the backlight. Unless you operate at 100% brightness (and maybe even then to optimise contrast and/or colour trueness on a factory-calibrated display) it will pulse with the rate being dependent on the brightness.
With LEDs, I suppose, it would be a similar as you cannot simply dim them like a bulb by reducing the Voltage. Of course, if they were to run on AC, being diodes, they'd flicker.

As Jeff's said, you either have to match the room illumination frequency exactly on that on the monitor or you'd have to use a freq that is different enough to prevent interference (cf. beat).

Of course, in the Ancient Times™ when illumination was done by bulbs and monitors and TVs were CRTs and had their flyback transformers were driven by the same frequency, that of the power grid.
Hence, even with variations in power supply, they'd correspond. There were no PLLs to generate clock, only coils and capacitors...
Naturally, it was wise to use a frame rate equal to that frequency, hence PAL with 50 Hz and NTSC with its 60 Hz (nowadays 59.94 Hz, whyever...)


Anyway, as to the advantage of 75 Hz to 60 Hz on an LCD, I'm not quite sure.
Naturally, higher freq means higher bandwidth but the question is, what gives...
One advantage may be a higher frame raten when running on V-Sync; that should result on smoother animations.
If you playback video material, synching to 75 Hz may even be more complicated and could result in tearing artifacts.
For browsing the web or word processing, I doubt it really matters.

Hence the question, why all this efford?
Usually, I do integrate/install monitor drivers if available but rather to have the supported resolutions and horizontal frequencies set up properly for the graphics driver.
Also, some contain ICCs which improves colour reproduction and calibrates them to sRBG colour space (much needed with most LCDs --> new, true white (not fake blue LEDs with yellow phosporous coating!) LED-powered backlights can sometimes even outdo CRTs in this field and cover even more than the Adobe colour space).

I'd rather be able to enforce per-pixel display on LCDs rather than have them bloat the image to full size, more often than desired not even respecting aspect rartio, resulting in a blurry, distorted image.
Yuck!

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

I see from LCD panel datasheets that the average frequency used on a backlight inverter is 65kHz.

Here's another tidbit:  lower your brightness, extend component life (incl battery on a portable)

The main function of this pack will be to facilitate the proper resolution modes & refresh rates when using a VGA cable that is missing the DDC (EDID) communication lines. (pin 9 - +5/3.3V, pins 12 & 15 - I2C bus)  The included color profiles are only useful for pictures (using GDI+ i think).

Last edited by TechDud (2011-08-24 20:42:12)

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

Average at 100% brightness, I presume?
That explains why some displays would flicker unter CFL room lighting when brightness is reduced only a bit (80-90%).
You're then coming close to their freq. and get interference effects...

I presume, those pins are only missing on cheaper cables that should not be used anyhow due to improper shielding  of electro-magnetic emissions.
It's those thin and flexible ones that feature (if, at all) only tiny ferrit rings...
Thankfully, so far all build-in cables I have found on monitors where of the thicker, prersumably high-quality type.
And nowadays, most cables are pluggable anyhow, thankfully.

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

Always nice to have you drop in Helmi!

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Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

When I find the time, I make sure to drop a post!
Mostly, my forum visit just consists of deleting spam post and banning users, though... hmm

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

Older KVM's can cause I2C communication to be disrupted too, like a cable with no support for EDID.
If you have a cable with pins 9, 12, & 15, you should be able to read the EDID over I2C with the power cord removed from the display.

EDID communication (or programming) errors can cause other affects, like the infamous Playstation3 HDMI 'black screen' issue.  The solution for displays exhibiting that behavior was to enter 'Service Mode' with a 'Service Remote' (if necessary) which 'Write-Enabled' the EEPROM, and then re-program the EDID chip over I2C.  This reprogramming method also works for monitors, less the service remote (Google 'Service Mode').

Anyone brave enough to try AOC's iMenu? http://forum.driverpacks.net/viewtopic. … 112#p45112 hmm

Last edited by TechDud (2011-08-26 05:08:54)

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

Does anybody have access to an old copy of the monitor packs DP_Monitor_wnt5_x86-32_908130.7z or older that they could share with me?
There are a great many LG drivers, etc. missing that i am no longer able to download from an OEM.
SamLab.ws or mindwarper should have a copy kicking around somewhere; please help.

Last edited by TechDud (2011-08-31 18:37:57)

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

adaptivepc.com/DP_Monitor_wnt5_x86-32_81227.7z

maybe even someone on the main team has an old copy laying around?

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Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

Thank you.  I found lots of downloads for these, yet just trying to maintain source-security. big_smile

I almost neglected to credit Us2002.  Rectified.

I think if i split the pack along the lines of WHQL (D/3/D/*) and non-WHQL (D/3/Mo/*) that should remove most of the CRT drivers from the WHQL pack, and resolve the age-old question of how to best segregate the LCD display drivers from the CRT equivalents.  The Vista-7 drivers could be mostly WHQL (\x86\3\Di\) & WHQL-only (\x64\3\Di\).

Last edited by TechDud (2011-08-30 04:11:17)

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

I have DP_Monitor_wnt5_x86-32_90808 and DP_Monitor_wnt5_x86-32_908130 if you want them.
Let me know for certain and I'll upload them to my mediafire page.

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

can't be 100% certain on 3rd party DriverPack ... they are provided by third parties big_smile

they do get looked over by many people though...

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Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

Sure, mr_smartepants, those will help, although i'll only use files from the packs to fill holes in the pack if an OEM isn't forthcoming (or defunct), & i have not previously downloaded.  Most files have been re-downloaded from the OEMs (about 64 OEM support sites, so far), my other major source is, of course, Windows Update Catalog.

Will WHQL-only packs make sense for nt5, nt6-x86, & nt6-x64?   ie:  DP_Display_ntX-xYY  = WHQL;   DP_Monitor_ntX-xYY = non-WHQL.

That will make it much easier when testing in 'beta' to spot ( & correct) WHQL Signing errors, etc., if any.  big_smile

Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

I am sure it will...

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Re: [REQ] Monitors - Like, how 'bout an update, eh?

http://www.mediafire.com/file/qhuvkcp8e … 2_90808.7z
http://www.mediafire.com/file/qlsy6jpb5 … _908130.7z